Tactical Awareness and Fireteam leader

When you spend an order on a Fireteam, you activate the model, make it the leader and then spend the order.

...is how I remember it, but that seems to have changed during HSN3.

 

Second under that and NCO

UPD - found answer in order expenditure sequence:

1. Activation: The Active Player declares which trooper will activate.( here you change the link leader)
2. Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper.
3. Declaration of the First Skill: The Active Playerdeclares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement.

 

Technically at 1 all the Troopers of the Fireteam activate.

So it's:
1. I activate this Fireteam and make the Trooper with Tactical Awareness the Team Leader.
2. I spend their irregular order.

While this isn't an issue for Tactical Awareness it is an issue for NCO. Being activated by an order is the common understanding of "using an Order", so with NCO there is no explicit requirement to be the Team Leader.

Given how the wording is different I can only conclude that these skills work differently so that this is legal.

1. I activate this Fireteam and make Trooper Blogs the Team Leader.
2. I spend this Regular order. It is regular because I have an NCO in the Fireteam and their Automatic skill converts it into a regular order.

Note, that there is no requirement to be the Team Leader for Automatic, Optional skills to function.

 

Double checking the rules, the leader doesn't change when you spend the order. It changes later than that:

In the Active Turn, a player can change the Team Leader by placing the Team Leader Marker next to the Fireteam member he wishes to activate when declaring the first Skill of an Order.​

Emphasis added.

Edit: Or am missing something in the new skills where they allow the team leader to change earlier than that?

 

It is unfortunate but indeed it is declared during the first skill declaration. Which makes it an odd sequence if looking under the magnifying lens.

OTOH, if using it when he's not the leader last time means it breaks the fireteam (the skills turns off), then that would mean if he WAS the designated leader when using the order and activating the whole fireteam (because you are checking the rule "is designated" during step 1/2 activation/spending order); then at the next step 3, you could declare a different fireteam leader for the first skill of the current order; at which point it is too late to go back and undo Step 1 and Step 2.

 

Missed that, cheers. Adds further emphasis to the difference between NCO and Tactical Awareness: if the order is spent before the Team Leader is nominated, then for NCO it really doesn't matter that the NCO is the Team Leader for that order.

That being said, I think the intent is clear for Tactical Awareness: the Trooper needs to be the Team Leader for the short skills that they are using the Irregular Order, but not necessarily at Step 2 of the Order Expenditure Sequence.

 

So I'm looking at NCO and Tactical Awareness in the "new skills" PDF.
NCO's Effects:

This Special Skill allows its owner to use the Special Lieutenant Order, considering it as another Regular Order of their Combat Group.​

Tactical Awareness's Effects:

This Special Skill allows its owner to use the Special Lieutenant Order, considering it as another Regular Order of their Combat Group.​

That's copy/paste of the Effects block for both of the skills. If you look at the examples:

In his Active Turn, Raktorak Wadek, designated as Team Leader of a Fireteam: Core of Suryats, declares the use of the Special Lieutenant Order via his NCO Special Skill. As this Special Skill allows this Order to be considered as a Regular Order, using it doesn’t trigger the Fireteam Integrity rules, so the Raktorak remains part of the Fireteam.​

--

A Shàng Jí possessing Tactical Awareness, in addition to the Regular Order it adds to the Order Pool, will have an extra Ir- regular Order her player will place close to it on the game table during the Order Count step of her Player Turn.

If this Sháng Jì is part of a Fireteam, and its player designates it as the Team Leader, that Irregular Order could be used to activate the Fireteam as if it were a Regular Order.​

Edit: So the Effects text for Tactical Awareness is completely wrong in the PDF because it also doesn't match the skill description:

This Special Skill defines a higher knowledge of the tactical environment allowing its user a greater operational capability, providing him with an extra Irregular Order.​

So I'm just going to be spectator to this discussion until someone can tell me what the real Effects text is.

 

PDF error, they posted the correct text (actually a photo of the book page) on FB.

 

Okay, looking at the image of the rule on Facebook.... This is bullet point four of that skill:

* In addition, if the owner of this Special Skill belongs to a Fireteam and is designated as the Team Leader, then this Order can be used to activate the Fireteam as if it were a Regular Order.
​

I have to reject Inane.Imp's claim due to causality (and verb tense) violations, until such time that a supporting foreign language version of the rules can be provided. I'm pretty sure none of the rules have been demonstrated to have a "As long as you promise to do X in the future, you can do Y now" clause in them like that.

 

@solkan if that's the case, it's super awkward to play.

 

Which claim? I made several: a couple of which are demonstrably false.

You probably mean my one about RAI? And yeah, I'm pretty sure that the RAW can't give that outcome but the RAW way to play it is *really* awkward, so I doubt it was intended.

 

For the time being I'm going to play it that you can use the irregular order to make someone the leader, rather than only using it when they are already the leader.

 

Either way guys, even if you have to alternate a regular order for the whole team before setting someone new up and using their tactical awareness order....

Doesn't this still mean that you can make a HI pain train with 3x tactical awareness HMG's in it (plus strategos 1 in Kornak's suryat case) and walk up the board with 14 orders spent on your link team? Strikes me as absolutely absurd.

Tactical Absurdity
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10 3
KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
ZERAT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Submachine Guns, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 17)

6 SWC | 300 Points

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Okay, i think we need @ijw and @HellLois here for clear understanding.

 

IA can one-up that with 16 orders (granted, zuyong is not suryat, but still). Pretty sure that's the intended behavior.

Spoiler

Invincible Army
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenade / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army