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Two TAG for a real show of force

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Arkhos94, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I was working on the list for my next tournament (which include show of force) when I had a crazy idea : if this mission ask for 1 TAG, why not play two ?

    The result of this is :
    [​IMG] Two TAG
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] IGUANA HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 71)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] IGUANA OPERATOR HMG / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The idea is simple : the Szalamandra handle long range shooting while the iguana is free to go up the board to rush my opponent

    Moran and zero should be able to provide mid range support if necessary.

    First thing : it's unexpected. I will likely keep the iguana as reserve and I don't think anyone seeing a Szalamandra on the board will expect me to deploy the iguana as a last peace

    Second : the iguana feels more able to go as a "up board" TAG as he will eject instead of falling inconscious (hopefully landing behind someone), so he won't need engineer support

    Third : rule of cool. Giant robot are cool, giantS robotS are even more

    So, could you please poke my list a little and see what I missed ? If someone already played something similar, I would be happy to have some feedback
     
  2. Civilized Barbarian

    Civilized Barbarian Praxis' Lead R&D Janitor

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    Great repeater coverage and hackers to use it, solid board control, big fists with the TAGs, and 6 specialists? Well fucking done, I wouldn't have thought it was possible.

    Only change I would consider is dropping the FO from one of the Morans to free up a single point, allowing you to change the Moderator into a chain rifle Jag. DTW defense for your interventor and smoke to move out first turn.
     
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I'd turn the Iggy into a Gecko, frees up some points, better at close range engagements, more durable, gives you another specialist which carries a pair of nasty weapons themselves.
     
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  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Iggy isn't great for this mission because it's one of the squishiest 'TAGs' even though it's 4 STR/wounds before null state.

    Blizten co-ord with a B3 HRMC will scare any TAG as well. :)
     
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  5. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I spend some time thinking about your message, what does the gecko bring that the iguana don't have ?

    The only things I see is a better ARO (blitzen) and the ability to be repairable. As I planned to use the second TAG very aggresively, moving him up the board (so no repair), I don't see a huge advantage for the gecko over the iguana. Did I miss something ?

    This being said, show of force don't need much in the specialist department and replacing the Iguana by a MK12 gecko free 1.5 SWC, so I can take some minelayer to increase my board control and stop pesky warband/skirmisher to rush my TAG (or my lieutenant) turn 1 :

    [​IMG] Two TAG v02
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 54)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] PUPPET MASTERS (Minelayer) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / PistolKnife. (0.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I like both option, I will need to think about it more
     
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    17pts, 1.5SWC and an additional STR.

    Salzy is your aggressive TAG. Gecko is the "Soo you killed my first TAG and I killed yours... Now you have to kill TAG #2'.
     
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  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't Iguana be better at that ? Better burst, better ARM, twice the Wo (admit half of them as an HI)
     
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    it really isn't unfortunately, if you want a piece to run up the table then you want better close quarter range bands and that extra structure means its not going to be useless after losing one f2f roll to a sniper rifle or any DA/T2 and remain as a scoring piece longer. The pilot can get out of the Gecko and push buttons where the Iggy operator can't. Gecko pilot also carries a B5 weapon. 1 point of arm is neglible, and while having 2 more wounds on a HI is a cool gimmick in a scenario like show of force you want it to be a tag for scoring purposes not a 70 odd point mobile brigada halfway across the table.
     
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  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    +1 ARM and -1STR as a TAG. Show of Force requires the TAG profile not the HI one.

    The HI profile is kinda shitty in a TAG fight. If this was a purely Zone Control mission I'd be agreeing with you: but it's the TAG tag that is important.
     
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  10. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    If you want to run a second Main Battle TAG, the Iguana makes for a great Lizard proxy, that's all depending on points, also with double moran I'd probably turn one or both Zeros into killer hackers to protect the TAGs better.
     
  11. geckoguy

    geckoguy Member

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    Here is my take on your first list, taking into account some suggestions from the thread as well as a personal favorite of mine
    [​IMG] Two TAG
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 54)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 24)
    4 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  12. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I had missed the fact that Gecko was a 3 STR TAG, I thought it was 2 STR. Then I agree, it change things a lot. Then I will llikely go Gecko

    I don't have a lot of hacker in My meta but, if I want to protect my TAG better, I can still replace the puppet master and a pair of zondbot by an interventor KHD. Need to think on it.
     
  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    even if you don't have a lot just having one KHD prevents that random line infantry hacker from trying to mess with it or stops that one guy that takes an AD AHD as a last turn button pusher from doing the same.

    and if they dont then it gives you another good specialist in the midfield.
     
  14. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Usually I agree and take a zero and/or heckler hacker in each list, but show of force need just brute force and TAG. Specialists are not really needed.
     
  15. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    yeah, for some reason I had it stuck in my mind that you needed poke the the antenna with something.
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    They're not. But pretty much everyone will be running KHDs to clear away AHDs and you have a Hacker Lt.
     
  17. Civilized Barbarian

    Civilized Barbarian Praxis' Lead R&D Janitor

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    Thinking Deadly Dance maybe?

    Who can use the Lt order on Cybermask, taking them out of the hacking game unless you want to ARO something.
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    You have 2 Morans and there's a solid chance your opponent will be running TAGs: you want to ARO with your Hacker.

    There's also the T1 Lt kill through a Repeater play. Without your own KHDs there's solid odds of that working. With your own KHDs you can limit it to a single attempt.
     
  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The principal benefit of KHDs in your list is it stops someone getting multiple hacking attempts vs your Interventor. What you want to do vs the Surprise Shotting KHD is Breakwater with your Interventor and Skullbuster* with your KHDs (vs 1W Hacker, unless it's a Naga or Dasyu then Trinity instead; vs 2W Hackers RedRum is the answer). This gives your Interventor the best odds of surviving the first attack, and you the best odds of killing the enemy KHD so that it doesn't attack again.

    Working:

    Vs a Surprise Shot Redrum from a Zero KHD (through your Moran's Repeater), if your Interventor uses Breakwater then these are the odds.

    Zeros Redrum vs. Interventors Breakwater
    Active Player
    29.60% Zeros inflicts 1 or more wounds on Interventors (Unconscious)
    9.95% Zeros inflicts 2 or more wounds on Interventors (Dead)

    Failures
    38.62% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    31.77% Interventors Defends vs. Zeros

    Whereas, same set-up, but using Suckerpunch instead (DAM16 not DAM17 Suckerpunch, but we're only concerned with the odds of hte Interventor dying so that's not really an issue).

    Zeros Redrum vs. Interventors Suckerpunch
    Active Player
    41.73% Zeros inflicts 1 or more wounds on Interventors (Unconscious)
    15.15% Zeros inflicts 2 or more wounds on Interventors (Dead)

    Failures
    35.76% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    22.51% Interventors inflicts 1 or more wounds on Zeros (Unconscious)
    15.61% Interventors inflicts 2 or more wounds on Zeros (Dead)

    * Skullbuster is the best odds unopposed vs a 1W Hacker without Dogged or NWI. But it's only like 3% up on Redrum, so the rule 'if in doubt, Redrum' still applies. Unwounded Nagas and Dasyus your should pretty much always Trinity if unopposed or in your active though.
     
  20. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Most KHD who are able to try to rush my interventor will be camo skirmisher. I plan to have two minelayer so if I don't play first, I will likely have my Moran deployed far enough from the midline that any KHD will have to take a mine in the face before hacking (then he will be decamo and will need to dodge my CK)
     
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