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EVO hacker without hacker ??

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Fangoman, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. Fangoman

    Fangoman New Member

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    Can I deploy a EVO hacker remote without any human hacker in the list ?
    It`s a REM and therefore it theoretically would need a human hacker to be deployed too...
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    "This piece of Equipment allows players to enlist REMs in their Army List."
     
  3. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I think the rules are a bit unclear, but in this case the EVO Hacker counts for the purposes of deploying itself. The rule could potentially be amended to be "This piece of Equipment allows players to enlist REMs in their Army List, including any REMs which include this equipment".
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Or, looking at it from the other direction: lists are verified when done, not while building. This way a hacker REM satisfies the requirement that the list has a hacker to enlist a REM.
     
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  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Indeed. There is no actual "sequence' when writing an army list, so you just look at the list, see that it has REMs which require a Hacker, and also see that the list includes a Hacker.
     
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  6. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    Okay, and where is that written down? This seems like a reasonable rational, but I also don't remember seeing it written down anywhere.

    No offense, it just seems a bit clearer to note this in some manner for hacking devices. EVO is just the most obvious place, since EVO hackers are all REMs, unless there's an exception I'm forgetting.
     
  7. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    The remote rule says: “Your Army List must include a Hacker or a TAG to include Remotes.”
    That doesn’t say “Must include X before it includes Y”. It’s just “If you have X, you need to have Y, too.”
     
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  8. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    The semantics are weird but an EVO hacker REM is able to satisfy its own prerequisite.
     
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  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    See solkan's post. There is, literally, no sequence ever given for writing your army list or performing list-building checks in a specific order. You'd have to add rules to be able to do so.
     
  10. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    True, but there's an implicit ambiguity as to whether that's inclusive or exclusive. Hence the OP question.
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Is there a green tick in army? If yes you're GTG.

    That's where the ambiguity is resolved.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    OMG, V must be that uber rare programmer I've heard about who never makes mistakes. Thank goodness that CB was fortunate enough to be able to hire him before somebody else needed a perfect programmer. /s
     
  13. Pr01yfic

    Pr01yfic Active Member

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    Army will also green tick lists that violate sectorial fireteam restrictions
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    That's because Fireteams aren't part of list building.
     
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  15. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Fireteam restrictions don't break list composition. The list is legal, even if the Fireteam is not.


    Also @Rogujello. There's about as many mistakes in the Army code as there is in the Rules text themselves (ie many). But: you can only go on what's there: and what's there is that the default position is (barring known issues) Army is the rules.
     
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  16. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, nothing is perfect. I'm mostly pointing it out since I think it's inherently ambiguous due to the nature of English, and game rules should be as clear as possible.
     
  17. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    And I'm pointing out that it is unambiguous. Army provides an unambiguous answer to the question "is this list valid".

    It might be wrong from time to time, but it's unambiguous.
     
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  18. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    It's ambiguous if you try to add extra clauses that aren't in the rules. :-(
     
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