So it would appear that there is no restriction against making CC attacks against unconscious enemy targets. However Predator says that "Performing a Coup de Grâce doesn’t count towards this objective." So it appears to be legal to make CC attacks against enemy unconscious models. Further it's potentially necessary, depending on the situation, since a model is not killed when it's unconscious, until the end of the game, making it possible to "lose" this classified to a doctor roll. Minor side note, "Killing" itself is also not defined anywhere in the main rulebook, and is only defined in some missions, because it's exact definition varies. Usually this doesn't matter, but with the ability to go in and out a "killed" state due to doctor rolls it becomes a bit more important. If just going into unconcious qualifies as "killed", then it's possible to "kill" the same model more than once. If it's only checked at the end, or when the model is removed, then it's only possible one time per enemy model. Finally, my initial impression (as well as my opponents) was that the intention was to force you to cause wounds in CC against active enemy targets that could defend themselves, not use enemy corpses as target practice for pistols knives and swords. Is this just a poorly worded classified, or am I missing, or misunderstanding something? Would it make more sense if the wording was "Cause 2 wounds/str using a close combat attack against a conscious enemy?" That would make it slightly easier, since it's possible to do multiple wounds with a single attack, and it removes the advantage of bullying 1W targets.
I’m going to say the intent is clear and you can’t do Predator against an unconscious target, even if you choose to make a roll instead of using the coup de grace rule.
I think the reason for prohibition on CdG in Predator is so that it wouldn't overlap with Extreme Prejudice. There are a lot of classifieds which require you to make a roll at (or otherwise interact with) the enemy, and the only ones which specify whether the target should be unconscious or not are the ones which REQUIRE it to be down. And in the text of Predator, there is as much indication that the enemy must be active when you start punching him as there is in Nanoespionage. But I have to agree with you - Predator could use a clarification on what qualifies as killing for its purposes, as there is no general rule for that.
Of course you can, Just like you can FO them for telemetry. And Unc trooper is not "Dead" or "Killed" until the end of the game or until it enters the dead state Every single time the definition of "killed" has been discussed in this game the distinction above has been enforced, I see no reason to think that just because this is a new classified that would change. Scoring in ITS is always such that Unc models are only considered killed if they are Unc at the end of the game.
Your argument makes absolutely no sense. Any model armed with an AP CCW now can't possibly do predator, because the vast majority of those models are stuck at burst 1 for CC and inflicting a wound will place the model in unconcious state and will require a second order to kill them. like @daboarder says just like every other classified you can trigger it off unconcious models.
Or glue them for hunting party. I think when you look at the ITS missions that say unc models are killed at end of game I have to believe this is the exception that proves the rule on when something is "killed".
Ok, I get what you’re saying. I’m just not terribly sure what the point of excluding coup de grace is in that case - just to make it hard (but still not impossible) to do without a model that has at least some degree of CC skill? More broadly, I do think a lot of the classifieds that you can do to unconscious models end up being a bit silly in practice, but that is neither here nor there.
Yes. Sorry for the sarcasm, but why is this bit even a question? Unconscious state doesn't make a trooper immune to CC Attacks, just like it doesn't make them immune to BS Attacks, being Targetted etc.
Because for some people, watching a Combine Slave Drone hump an unconcious Tiger Soldier for 3 turns trying to get this classified done just makes them feel like they need a shower.
To expand on this, with 'Close Combat' effectively being 'via CC Attack', this would mean that: If you put a trooper into Unconscious state via CC Attack and they end the game in Unconscious state then you get the kill. If you put a trooper into Dead state via CC Attack (excluding Coup de Grâce) then you get the kill. In neither case can the starting state of the trooper make any difference, so Unconscious to Dead would be perfectly valid, as long as it was done via CC Attack.
Compared to say, having that classify require an active enemy ? Against an active enemy it would be hard but not impossible for a cheerleader to achieve it. Being able to attack a downed enemy still makes it hard, but not as hard as before. But also not as easy as Extreme Prejudice. So i'd say yes the reason to exclude CdG is too make you use good CC troopers, same as if you were to attempt killing an enemy in FtF in CC.
If the intent was to not allow it, they would have done the same as they did with Nanoespionage where standard requires to be Engaged with enemy specialist, spend a Short Skill, succeed at a Normal WIP. And for Extreme mode they added Engaged with an enemy specialist in a non-Null state. Perhaps Predator Extreme could have been to kill two enemy in CC that were in a non-Null state at the start of your Order. Would have been better than simply upping it to kill 3 enemy. They missed the opportunity to do so.
Making a normal CC attack against an unconscious model only seems to make sense for this one classified. I cannot think of another situation where CC attack vs an unconscious model would be better than Coup de Grace. Contrast this with BS attacks or being Targetted, where there are advantages to targetting or BS attacking unconscious models. So I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some restriction, forum post, or FAQ answer. It wasn't clear if it wasn't done because of custom/lack of motivation, or restriction.
OK, thanks for the explanation. Coup de Grâce is just an additional type of CC Attack that means you don't need to roll. There's nothing in CC Attack, Engaged state, Unconscious state etc. that infers that CC Attacks aren't allowed against Unconscious troopers, it's just that tactically a Coup de Grâce is more Order-efficient.
