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Mine in cover and impact template?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Ben Kenobi, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    What happens to a mine in cover(S2 particular, S0 full), which is hit by an impact template outside the cover.
    Cause the discovered mine has silhouette 0 and would be in full cover, can it be destroyed? And if it make a successful armor save, will it be discovered?
     
  2. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    It shouldn't be destroyed or have to make an armor save because it isn't hit by the blast.

    It probably shouldn't even be discovered, templates don't strip market state. I would just state it's a mine to explain the fact it isn't hit but can't be marked prone, then leave the camo state intact. So your opponent *knows* what it is, but no in game states have changed.

    This would all be simpler if mine camo tokens were always automatically prone ;)
     
  3. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    I'd say yes the mine will be thrown out of marker state. What cancels the marker state is a successful hit.

    Cancellation
    A trooper's Camouflaged state is canceled, and its Marker replaced by its model, whenever:
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camouflaged

    Also unless we want to go into quantum infinity the mine should be destroyable. The mine got successfully hit. If we retroactively change that the game breaks. Example:
    • Camo marker gets successfully hit
    • Camo state revoked
    • Was without camo S0 so it wasn't hit
    • If it wasn't hit camo state wasn't actually canceled
    • If camo wasn't canceled it has S2
    • If the camo marker is S2 it gets successfully hit
    • Camo state revoked
    • Was without camo S0 so it wasn't hit
    • If it wasn't hit camo state wasn't actually canceled
    • If camo wasn't canceled it has S2
    • If the camo marker is S2 it gets successfully hit
    • ......
     
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  4. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    you didn't hit it though, you didn't force it to make an ARM save

    it remains in marker state. if your opponent asks why, simply inform them that whatever he's actually trying to hit is in the shadow of the blast/template.
     
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  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    'a successful hit that forces him to make an ARM/BTS Roll'
     
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  6. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    @ijw and the mine won't be hit? It's a wired interaction between the two silhouette and I don't remember any rule for this.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Mines are Silhouette 0. The Mine has to be hit, to be hit.
     
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  8. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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  9. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    I’m trying to remember what, if anything, an S0 mine behind an inch tall wall (so that it’s base is completely hidden but you can see parts of its S2 silhouette, not necessarily in base contact with cover) uses the S2 silhouette for.

    It’s pretty much just vulnerable to Discover. Actually shooting at it just results in “You would have hit, but realize it’s actually S0” unless you can hit its base.
     
  10. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    I think it’s just one of those fun quirks you have to remember. It makes it easier to discover mines, as they can’t be hidden as easily as if they were S0. Unfortunately it does lead to this interesting Schrodinger’s mine situation where the camo token and mine have different silhouettes though.
     
  11. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    You also stop enemies from going into recamo with its LoF. (I guess its the same with cautious move)
     
  12. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    If that's how it works you have to help me with intuitive attack vs mine camo markers:

    A camo marker (mine) is behind a 1" wall. I declare intuitive attack with a flamethrower.

    1. Am i even allowed to roll for Wip? The direct template gets placed upon declaration. Does my enemy tell me the template does not hit the marker there and my intuitive attack becomes an idle? . And if that is the case can i even discover such a mine camo marker? Discover has the same LoF requirements as BS attack (and intuitive attack allows you to make a bs attack)
    2. If i am allowed to roll for Wip :
    • a) I pass the Wip roll and my opponent tells me i can't hit the target with the template? (So nothing happens)
    • b) If i crit the Wip roll the mines dies even though i wouldn't be able to even damage it with the template? (the crit is written in especially for intuitive attack)
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    I think you're making it more complex than it is.

    Discover is against the marker itself, so can always work if you have LoF to the marker.

    Intuitive Attack with a template weapon is going to resolve in exactly the same way as any other Attack with a template weapon - the Mine is a marker that's not going to declare an ARO, and when it comes to the Effects step of the Order, the Mine is in Total Cover so is not affected. Your opponent will know that it's a Mine (unless you fail the WIP Roll) because that's the only way a Camo marker can be in the area of a template and not be affected.
     
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