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"Deniable Asset" - wishlisting NA2 PanO merc force

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    So it matters when it's a faction you like, but when I want a Hexahedron or PanO military(read: not stupid Knights or Aleph) profile in NCA to fulfill a similar role I'm "asking for too much"?

    Because let's be honest here: What does a Deva bring that a Hexahedron profile couldn't?
     
  2. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    A tie in between forces that work together in the setting as constructed, and one less profile to inflate PanO's overall profile count.
     
  3. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    It's not about what I like, although I very much do like Aleph. It's about how Aleph is written. It was funded by different governments and it wants to maintain influence with those governments. Hence, incentive for Aleph to provide its units to those governments. On the other hand, the governments did provide funding and support to Aleph, so getting something from it also makes sense from those governments perspectives. For partially/non-contributing governments (Haqq), the ties are lower, so they are less willing to take in those troops.

    There is zero reason for any mercenary outfit to trust Aleph given atrocities they commit (because that's why you rent mercenaries), and there is even less reasons for Aleph to want its troops selling out. Lets shout that we have troops we shouldn't have, and make their capabilities clear to everyone by allowing them to be rented easily! Lets also make sure our troops are tied-in to atrocities!
    It's a completely unrelated situation. And nobody claimed that a Deva brings something Hexahedron profile couldn't. It's all about whether is there any reason for that profile to exist. From lore perspective, none at all - for one, Deva doesn't cover a critical role for that army, and for another, why would Hexahedron spend resources preparing a force equivalent to one that already exist? Not to mention that a lot of Deva roles are already covered by other units available to Hexahedron, except in a more PanO way.
     
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  4. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    This is fallacious. You don't necessarily "rent mercenaries to commit atrocities". That's the whole point of StarCo and KTS--they're mercenaries with a code of conduct. Not like Ikari Company or Druze Bayram.

    And that said, it's not like Aleph or its partner governments don't have a reasonable control on the flow of information. You really trying to say it would be difficult for them to claim that any "atrocities" committed weren't actually committed by Nomad forces using stolen tech or Combined Army using sepsitorized troops?
    And yet "from a lore perspective", you wouldn't let some meatsuit for an AI anywhere near your Intelligence operations without something being in play to prevent them from accessing things you don't want them to have.

    TLDR version: Nothing says that Aleph forces would have big signs on them saying "WE'RE ALEPH FORCES PLZ REMEMBER WE DID THIS" :P
     
    #24 kanluwen, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  5. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Mercenaries with "code of conduct" is just a PR stunt and a way to claim higher fees.
    t's not about actual atrocities, it's about the risk-reward of being tied to any claims of atrocities. There is no point for Aleph to allow any of its troops in any mercenary outfit. It has much better sources of cash, none of the outfits have anything remotely credible or interesting for Aleph. After all, if it needs their services, it can hire them on the market.
    Sure. So obviously Hexahedron thinks it has such a failsafe. Which is related how? Again, Devas don't provide an indispensable service to NCA. It's a unit which you may use, may not use, depending on what you'd like to have. If there is something super-secret that Devas should definitively not see, you just skip using them and you're no worse off.
     
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  6. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Fire ammo has the chance to kill anything, Pulzar (what's the name of the non breaker BTS ammo?) hasn't. So I'd say Fire ammo is scarier to anything.
     
  7. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    We're not constructing "pure" mercenary NA2 here, like DBS or Ikari. This is a force with close - if clandestine - ties to Hexahedron and PanO corporations, which both have their own ties to Aleph, regarding both funding and information flow. It's not unreasonable to think that they might've covertly request AI's assistance, or that Aleph herself might've want to use such outfit as a cover for one of its black ops operative's mission.

    MO, on the other hand, has no ties with such squads, and there's no reason to have knights included here. Black Friars, though... I see them as MO's equivalent of Hexahedron, and can see them working alongside other units. We can see them in very different PanO sectorials. BF's in general are a very interesting unit lore-wise, I'd really like to see it developed some more.

    Pulzar works against BTS, though. Together with SMG it allows to threaten a wide range of targets, while not making the unit too universal.

    I saw an interesting point earlier about Zu Yongs being a good basis for standard HI here. Same goes for the post about Haqq remotes. I wonder how available are various equipment is on the paramilitary market.
     
    #27 Stiopa, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  8. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    If you are trying to be completely clandestine and/or unrelated, you will not take on mission anything that can identify the source. All your equipment will be either foreign or possible to obtain on black market, and none of it will be traceable to you, much less exclusive. While you may send an operative or two to help or supervise mercenaries, again, those people will not have anything related to their source. They will also be fired or on leave, thus allowing you the cover of claiming they were working on their own.

    ALEPH operatives have no such ability to be "on leave". They might get disowned completely which would be odd enough, and probably involved capture and torture by Nomad Black Hand to ensure loyalties, or would otherwise be seen as a complete and utter cover. Mere presence of an Aleph trooper is undeniable claim that Aleph helped if not requested operation, which denies any point in hiring mercenaries.

    Basically, if Aleph operative is present, it outs the operation as sanctioned by either Aleph or one of the associated governments. Defeating the whole purpose of hiring mercenaries and/or lacking traceability.

    Or in other words, keep Aleph out of mercenary factions, even fake mercenary factions. JSA could get Aleph troops I guess.
     
  9. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's PanO's favorite one to blame...
    Maybe that's even one of their main jobs:
    Steal some Yu Jing equipment (Armor, REMs, etc...) to hurt them
    and to get stuff for covert operations for which to blame them, to hurt them a second time.

    JSA troops might still owe them, so these pofiles might be availablle as well.
     
  10. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

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    If this merc unit is connected to corporations then there should be a CSU profile with CoC.

    TAGs should be Geckos with a new load out or two.

    JSA's funding by PanO should add some units, maybe Tanko?

    Aida.

    If we gotta have an Aleph unit maybe a new character specifically for this sort of action. One that, like Aida, maybe PanO doesn't even realize the outside faction connection

    Edit: the Ramhorn so people can use that Scarface they bought for Season 8.
     
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  11. CoffeeBadger

    CoffeeBadger Well-Known Member

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    For TAGs I could also imagine the Reptile series manned by Hexahedron trained pilots.

    "We sold all our Geckos to the Nomad nation, so those cannot possibly have been our guys..."
     
  12. HeckMeiser

    HeckMeiser Well-Known Member

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    Look at it this way:

    An "army" of this sectorial would be more like a team of shadowrunners, if you're familiar with that game. The lieutenant, a hexa or something, would be the mastermind. Other quality troopers with ties to PanO or Aleph would be non-expendable support, or advisors, or overseers or whatever. The mercs are the ones there to take the bullets and the blame. With a little imagination you could come up with any reason that kind of joint task force would be out together. Something with high enough stakes that all the different organizations making up the team would have a reason to send their own agents to make sure the mission goes down the way they want, even with the risk that entails.
     
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  13. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    I am reading a lot take that unit and use it as such in here. I am not sure CB is doing their list like that at all. Its always the exact unit that is rented out, never a veteran that left the unit and is now doing it on his own. So either we need new profiles for those kind of troops, it wont happen or you can proxy as you like with any of the existing sectorials.
     
  14. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The first thing I'd want from a PanO merc Sectorial is to retain the coherent look of a professional army, instead of the mix and match the other merc Sectorials went for.
    Motto? Throwing money on the problem.
    Characters? Bare minimum, if any.
    Focus? High tech stealth and trickery, rather than chaff and merc choices galore. A properly tuned PanO vibe (work around not having Smoke, high tech equipment, a little restricted on the Specialist and utility side of things).
    .
    So what would you buy if you're a PanO Megacorp that wants a problem to go away secretly but with extreme predjudice?
    A preconfigured package of assets, who don't ask questions and with loyality that can be bought.
    What would not fit into that picture? Aleph and MO aren't for sale to the highest bidder, they're out. ABHs are individuals and not properly organized, they're also practically everywhere already, pass. Krakots seem like a liability and they're always interested in a good fight rather than a smooth operation, out. Druze are the Mafia and can't be trusted with crucial information, we may be a Megacorp, but Druze are bad taste and business. Pirates, Smugglers etc are also out of the question, what we want is a proper private army, Yuan Yuan, Aida, various Haqq and Nomad stuff, out. Nothing without a Cube - can't be monitored and controlled properly, also unreliable to boot.
    No Warcors allowed on corporate blackops either.

    So what would that leave us with?
    Money buys loyality - someone else plays that tune quite well, Tunguska. Hollow Men, Hecklers and Specters can all be bought if the price is right according to their fluff. The perfect source of mercs for someone with pocket change to spare. Was very tempted to include KBs, but they didn't have the fluff to match.

    To make this less boring and more diverse JSA and especially lesser Ninja clans are a perfect fit for Mercs that do their job, do it silently and don't get caught. With JSA and PanO relations at an all time high this seems fitting.

    Magna Orba

    Line troops
    CSU (AVA4)
    Hexas (AVA3)
    Both with a Lt option
    Brawlers (AVA5)
    Securitate (AVA3)
    no Lt option

    Other LI
    Clockmakers (AVA1)

    REMs
    PanO Vanilla arsenal and AVA, no Bulleteers or Peacemakers
    Lunokhod (AVA1)
    Stempler (AVA1)

    HI
    Hollow Men AVA2
    Karakuri AVA1
    Shikami AVA1
    you need them to be silent, you got it

    Skirmishers
    Locust (AVA2)
    Hecklers (AVA2)
    Spektr (AVA1)
    Ninjas (AVA1)
    don't exist anyway

    TAGs
    Szally (AVA1)
    For when you merely want to make an example of someone instead of going all stealthy (and because ITS pretty much requires a TAG choice these days). Szally is an older PanO design that got refurbished by Tunguska after all.

    Links glue the thing together as usual for NA2/Merc stuff
    Securitate/Brawler/CSU Core Links.
    A lot of room for interesting options with the HI(including LI/HI Cores), but what I really wanted to have is a Shikami + Hollow Men Haris.
    4 options for a Marker KHD.
    Orders are affordable but only up to a certain threshold.
    Limited/expensive Doc/Engineer options.

    I'd run that in a heartbeat (well not every option, some are there for a coherent feeling but I think it does the concept justice)
    What I would really, really like to have is something that doesn't go down the rabbit hole of wishful thinking like the Skunkworks project.
    Asking for a "clandestine force with plausible deniability, but it also should have the Hulkbuster because reasons" sounds like design that should be put in question during brainstorming...
     
  15. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Sounds like Kaplan fit into that roster as well. They might not do the dirty work, but they still are Mercs and will keep shut, be super professional.
     
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  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    All I really want to see is a generic Ramhorn TAG...
     
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  17. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Had looked into them, but they didn't really fit into the theme. No Cubes disqualified them as "too cheap" and unreliable.
    Sorry. :neutral_face:
     
  18. Ariwch

    Ariwch Tournament benthotic lurker

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    You meant, "Let's do what Aleph does", didn't you?

    'cause Aleph's doing the best for Humanity is
    , ehrr?

    :-D
     
  19. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    We've seen Magna Obra's "mercenary" forces before...

    It's called Ikari Company or Druze Bayram. Magna Obra is the company that is responsible for the hostilities between the Druze and Ariadnans, and they continually hire Druze specifically for the continued antagonization of the Ariadnan forces.
     
  20. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    This really needs to be a thing, like, yesterday.

    Especially:

     
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