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Forming Fireteams: a Summary

Discussion in 'Rules' started by ijw, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Nope, any member can have the skill unless it specifies a restriction (for example the Karakuri + Domaru team specifies it must be the Domaru with Haris)
     
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  2. terrordactyl

    terrordactyl High Commander, Sword of Allah, Concilium Prima
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    This is a great summary, thank you!
     
  3. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    @ijw to provide total clarity, can you please provide a direct response to the below queries - a "Yes" or "No" response, rather than a direction back to existing text or an insinuation that the existing text is being misinterpreted. Be the hero we need :kissing_heart:

    Wildcard Trooper - a model with the text "join any Fireteam" - ala Valerya Gromoz in Druze, Voronin in TAK, Samekh in OS
    Does this model count as replacing one of the required, constituent models of the link?
    ie, A Special Haris link requires 2 Deva + 1 Asura, can I replace either a Deva OR an Asura with a Samekh Rebot, and the Samekh "counts as" being the model it replaced so that it is still valid under that Special Haris Fireteam's requirements?

    Pseudo Wildcard Trooper - a model with the text "join any X troop Fireteam" - ala Rudras with Yadu, CSU with Dakinis
    Does this model count as replacing one of the required, constituent models of the link?
    ie, A Special Haris link requires 2 Yadu + 1 Deva, can I replace either a Yadu OR a Deva with a Rudras, and the Rudras "counts as" being the model replaced so that it is still valid under that Special Haris Fireteam's requirements?

    Assuming your responses to the above are "Yes", reflective of the intent of the rules, by extension all of the below links would be correct?

    Yadu Special Haris-
    Samekh + Asura + Rudras
    Deva + Rudras + Samekh

    Deva Special Haris-
    Deva + Samekh + Asura

    Additionally, as "Wildcard Trooper", and pseudo versions or variations, are becoming a more standard inclusion can a standardised definition of these be included in the base Fireteam rules to specifically detail that they "count as" the model that they replace in the link. This would reduce existing and future confusion around the use of these, specifically where a troop is more of a variation of this standard Wildcard concept (ie, limited to 1 troop type).
     
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  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Yes and yes. See multiple previous replies in this thread:

    EDIT - as pointed out in one of the ALEPH threads, thats the definition of the word 'wildcard'.
     
    #64 ijw, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  5. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Out of interest - is this an error on the Profiles PDF/ in Army? With Vet Kazaks being a Wildcard Trooper, there is no reason to have a Special Core team with them present... They can just opt into a standard Frontovik Core link (or any of the Special Frontovik links).
    Kazaks.jpg
     
  6. terrordactyl

    terrordactyl High Commander, Sword of Allah, Concilium Prima
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    I also feel that those rules are colliding and find it a bit confusing. Perhaps 3 Vet Kazaks + 2 Frontovik is the only configuration valid for that particular combination?
     
  7. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how that is possible given how wildcard works. No reason for the special core, just take a core of Frontoviks and replace them at will with Vet Kazaks and you are still a normal core not special. Maybe that special core was from before they came up with the wildcard idea and wasn't removed as redundant afterwards...
     
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  8. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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    @ijw I'm sorry because I am probably being totally thick and I have read through this entire thread, but after a long day of work it really feels like bashing my head against a brick wall. For the most part I am clear. Where I am having difficulty is the Dakini/Deva/CSU interaction.

    I can take a Special Core with up to 4 Dakinis and up to 2 Devas. I can take a separate Special Core with any number of Dakinins and a CSU. However, can I take 2 Dakinis, 2 Devas and a CSU?

    ED
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Yes, because the CSU can join any Dakini Fireteam.
     
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  10. sam2064

    sam2064 Member

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    Was sad to see you can’t Fireteam Duo CSU’s in ISS even though they have the skill, as they are not on the chart. Hope it’s an oversight...
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    As per the summary and the Duo Skill itself, you need both the Skill on the trooper and for the Fireteam to be listed in the relevant Sectorial chart.
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Why can they not Duo? it's in the army creator. They even added it to them at one point. If you are going by the old PDF, they are not even allowed in the sectoral let alone Duo.

    BTW if this is about it not being wrong on the creator and it's hidden someplace else, i'm still not going to believe it since ITS lists MUST be made with the official list creator. If it's there it's equal for everyone. It's not fair to have a rule hidden somewhere and then say oh you can't use that.
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    So strictly speaking they can't form a Duo even with TeamPro running?
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Because the rules say so, as mentioned at the start of the thread:
    Which should answer @Mahtamori's question as well.
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, yeah, though I'm on about this line that's strictly not applicable to sectorials:

    • Moreover, TeamPro allows the use of Fireteam: Duo in Generic Armies
    (From TeamPro)
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Sorry, I thought that was covered by '(or it's a generic list and you're running the appropriate EVO program)'.
     
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  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but I still don't understand. Duo is a skill that every single CSU has. So in ISS you should be able to have any two of them Duo.
     
  18. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    You need the skill and permission from the Sectorial Army List.

    This is not new, the Umbra Samaritan has had the Haris skill since HSN3, but you can't make a pure Sammy Haris because the option is not given in the Onyx Army list, in this case it can only be used in a Sammy+Xeodron Special Haris.

    All CSUs have the Duo skill, but CSU Duos can only be formed in Sectorials that list it in their army list. ISS and NCA do not.

    Yes, this is poorly described both in the rules and especially in the Army Builder, we know, and I would like it to change, but that's what it is for the moment.
     
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  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Because the rules for Fireteams: Duo say that having the Skill isn't enough.
     
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    So I can't even take the CSU because they are not in the sectoral?

    upload_2018-10-26_13-22-31.png
     
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