A Daturazi and Raktorak in a link are advancing through smoke into base contact with a lone, unlinked enemy fusilier. The Daturazi is the link leader. The Daturazi has stealth so will not generate an ARO even though he advanced into base contact, but the Raktorak does not. So, the Raktorak will generate an ARO. What options does the fusilier have? If he wishes to make a melee attack, who can he attack?
The little and sweet fusilier find in a big trouble. The Daturazi don't grant any ARO to the fusilier because stealth, but the raktorak do. So, the fusilier, if both are out of LoS can declare dodge when both reach base to base contact but only could declare CC Attack against the raktorak. If he do nothing, then the team leader can punch him in the face and probably kill him, because the fusilier have his chance to declare ORA. So, dodge against both or CC Attack against the raktorak. Nothing more. Unless the poor fusilier was part of a four or five member fireteam, because SSL2.
We regularly get this question. The most consistent and least exploitable answer is: there is no difference in what the Fusilier can do. The Raktorak gives the Fusilier an ARO and the team generates only one ARO ever. CC Attack against the Daturazi doesn't violate any of the restrictions for CC Attack so Stealth doesn't matter.
it is hard to sneak in on an enemy when your teammates makes noises alerting him to your approach. Fusilier can attack any model activated by the Order. It is no different than two rakotrak coming in. only one of them generated an ARO, if they were both generating an ARO that would be a total of 2, but Fusilier will only have 1. Yes, they generate 1 ARO, so without knowing which one generated it, the Fusilier can attack any of the two activated models. In the case of Rak + Dat, we know who generated it, but it doesn't matter really, when you have an ARO against an Order you can target any model activated by that order.
I’m not entirely sure that being able to declare an ARO against the model with Stealth is intended. I know a similar conversation came up just a few weeks ago and it didn’t really result in anything. It’s a lot more clean if a model doesn’t trigger an ARO, you can’t target it with an ARO. As far as being hard to sneak up on an enemy, if their attention is focused on your buddy it might be easy to get them unaware.
The phrasing of this one around CC is interesting. Mostly when I've seen these discussions before it's about hacking. As I see it, the worst (for the Fusilier) interpretation is this: Fireteam activates and moves; Daturazi (stealth) enters base contact with Angus under cover of smoke, Raktorak moves within ZoC but out of Lof Angus can only change facing because the Daturazi doesn't generate an ARO due to stealth, but the Raktorak generated a ZoC ARO Daturazi declares a CC 21 attack against Angus's PH 7 Change Facing (plus Martial Arts mods, etc) The best (for the Fusilier) is: Fireteam activates and moves; Daturazi (stealth) enters base contact with Angus under cover of smoke, Raktorak moves within ZoC but out of Lof Angus gets an ARO thanks to the Daturazi, but can spend it any way he pleases. As such, he can declare CC against the Daturazi. Daturazi declares a CC 21 attack against Angus's CC 13 attack (plus Martial Arts mods, etc) Honestly, Angus is pretty screwed no matter what.
I said the same, yes you can declare ARO because the fireteam grants you one unique ARO. Which member do you can pick? Anyone which is pickable and this isn't the Daturazi because stealth. That what I think. ARO: Automatic Reaction Order In Infinity games, thanks to the Automatic Reaction Order (ARO) mechanic, players never stop making game-altering decisions. Even during their opponent's Active Turn, they can take actions as their figures and Markers react to enemies activating with Orders. A trooper owned by the Reactive Player can declare an ARO if any of the following is true: It has Line of Fire (LoF) to a trooper being activated by the Active Player. An enemy trooper activates within its Zone of Control (ZC). It has a Special Skill or piece of Equipment allowing reaction to enemy actions without LoF. The Reactive Player must declare AROs for all eligible troopers immediately after the Active Player declares his Entire Order or the first Short Skill of his Order (see: Order Expenditure Sequence). Troopers that fail to do so lose their ARO against that Order. If, by declaring the second Short Skill of its Order, the active trooper gives ARO to enemy troopers that did not have ARO against the first Short Skill, then those enemy troopers can declare their AROs. Each time the Active Player activates a trooper by spending an order, each eligible enemy gets one single ARO, regardless of the number of Skills the Active Player declares during that Order. AROs must choose the trooper activated by the Order as their target. Troopers cannot react to AROs, since only the Active Player's Orders give AROs and only the Reactive Player can declare AROs. There is no limit to the number of troopers that can react to the activation of a single enemy trooper. Yes, it was a conversation about stealth. I thinks hack-troops plus non-hack and stealth. And yes, the diiscrepancies still go on.
To be frank, the rules don't cover this eventuality, and CB doesn't care to fix any of the many problems with the rules. This comes up every damn time I play Transmission Matrix.
Come on, guys... This shit again? http://infinitythewiki.com/en/ARO:_Automatic_Reaction_Order A trooper owned by the Reactive Player can declare an ARO if any of the following is true: It has Line of Fire (LoF) to a trooper being activated by the Active Player. An enemy trooper activates within its Zone of Control (ZC). It has a Special Skill or piece of Equipment allowing reaction to enemy actions without LoF. AROs must choose the trooper activated by the Order as their target. Let's see Stealth, ok? http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Stealth A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them. At last, Fireteam. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_in_the_Active_Turn A Fireteam grants a single ARO to each enemy trooper within LoF or ZoC. Here we go... A mixed Fireteam (stealth + noisy) moving out of LoF but within ZoC grants an ARO to the enemy, Do we agree all on this, right? Then... A model with an ARO must chose the trooper activated by the Order. Stealth DOES NOT prevent the model to be chosen for ARO if the enemy model has right to one.
Does the fireteam generate an ARO for the Fusilier? Yes. Can the fireteam generate more than one ARO for the Fusilier? No. Is the Datarazi (stealth) activated by the order? Yes. Does CC Attack require the target to generate an ARO? No. Does CC Attack require the target to be in LOF? No. Does CC Attack require the target to be in Base to Base contact? Yes. Is the Datarazi in Base to Base contact? Yes. Please note that if you read it the other way around, you would not only be able to force Change Facing as the only response to a CC Attack (Move Crane into CC with Samaritan and linked CG inside the Samaritan's ZoC -> Enjoy Change Facing against a Crane with your uber-melee monster!) but you'd also be able to force very unfavourable Reset as only ARO versus Hacking attempts against enemy Hackers
@tox @Mahtamori That's all well and good but the section on ARO's in this context talks about "the model" not "a model" and so isn't really applicable to this situation. CB needs to be professional and redo the rules (overall, but especially here).
They mesh poorly, but they don't fall apart. ARO is referenced sufficiently to consistently know the basics that singular form doesn't really matter in this case.
I don't think you provide nearly enough information for me to follow your reasoning on why you think it is contradictory. Consider the rules for Fireteams where it is explicitly stated that it is the Fireteam that generates the ARO, not individual models. I do think CB needs to clarify this topic with an FAQ, however, since it is a frequently asked question and it is causing contention among people who have played the game a lot.
"Fireteam that generates the ARO" - I think it means, that you can't react to each member of team (only to one of them), but not that you can choose target for ARO. All rules still apply. In example above I don't think that fusiler can CC attack daturazi - if that would be true, then it is the same as attacking someone in link who is behind the wall, because you can see other link member.
The only effect of Stealth is to prevent to GENERATE an ARO. Please, show us where the rules says clearly (i.e. MORE clearly than what i have quoted above) that Stealth prevent to be chosen as "target" for an ARO.
Point to where in the rules that the Fusilier is prevented from AROing against any active model? You can't because it isn't there. Basically, Stealth prevents AROs being generated, nothing prevents a Trooper with an ARO targeting any active model (except the requirements of the declared skill). Edit: or what @tox said @RobertShepherd here's the main previous threads: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/stealth-on-stealth-aro-option.25279/ https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...e-activations-with-stealth-hacker-combo.3163/ http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...-hi-dodging-reset-and-hacking/#comment-956877
