Funny enough in my area (meta/whatever you wanna call it), i've often found the same when playing my vanilla yu jing. If i lose that initiative roll to go first, it comes down to whether or not my fodder monk/kuang shi and the single ARO pillar of the Husong can roll nice. if not there isn't much else providing a strong ARO game otherwise. so i agree vanilla YJ's counter is usually some weaksauce-fu. Sure there is the Hac tao arguement, but really for his investment to bust out of hidden in reactive is usually lackluster in my experience doing so. Given my area too once opponent figure that out when playing against vanilla YJ, they play the aggressive part and i'm find fighting the uphill. Thus on the side note, sun tze v1 has become a nice model to start winning that roll and forcing less hold back deployments, just love him.Again why sun tze is not in IA.... i dunnno reasons i suppose.
You should probably just try diving him with stuff like Tarik and watch his army implode once you scalpel out the couple of actual hitters in the list.
I don't even expect the monks or anything to roll nice in defense. I'll often have 2-3 of the monks/Kuang Shi that start in the open on deployment and just waste orders on the first turn with people shooting at them if I'm going second. I often leave Panguulings in the open too because there's not enough hiding places to go around.
Tarik doesn't do all that well in an environment where Sniper Rifles and Missile Launchers are worth their points cost and SWC.
I would agree if you could get those missiles and sniper rifles into link teams, but it's Vanilla. I know someone's gonna try and chime in here with "but muh Yan Huo Neuro is a Zhanshi linked ML" He costs more points and SWC than knocking off a Zhanshi, he's Tarik's preferred kind of Target and engaging from 24" which is relatively likely given Ghazi smoke is a thing Tarik crushes him statistically, though that may change slightly if Fatality gets fixed in the next book to not be stupid mode with high burst values.
Right, because Yan Huos and Guilangs and ABHs don't exist in Yu Jing. I don't know how big your meta is, or how much you travel to other areas, but you're making blanket statements that are not as widely applicable as you seem to think. To put it mildly.
If they ever raised the AVA on Guilangs you might see the snipers. Yan Huos are Tarik's preferred food. Expensive and easy to trash for him statistically. Lunah is the only sniper I think YJ has that's worth the points, but that's more for punching TR bots off rooftops than actually AROing, but I can tell you for a statistical fact you will almost never see her used. She was played less according to the ITS data CB gave us than Sniper Sun Tze and basically everyone can agree he's a dumpster fire in progress. She had like a 3.5-4% useage rate or something.
Guilang Snipers pin Tarik the fuck down. Generally speaking Tarik is an excellent bully. He clears through light troops without effective AROs against him extremely efficiently due to being very fast and aggressive, but when he runs into something that can put out an effective ARO, with bs mods and/or high ARM with multiple W in cover, he struggles to effectively dominate the ftf and his order efficiency drops. Tarik doesn't like Heavy Infantry in entrenched positions with good firelanes with hard hitting AROs, and Yu Jing is basically that, the faction.
The only thing I can ascertain is triumph has some kind of meta where rolling on your opponent on turn 1 if they don't have the strongest Aro units in the game is reliable and effective somehow. How a hac Tao, crane rank or Su Jian can't punish and over extended attacking force I have no idea. In our area Alpha strikes are high risk high reward. But yu Jing is hardly the easiest army to alpha against. The reward is higher due to the reliance on big hitters. But I can't fathom how it's easy
I am, I'm just assuming that most people know how a smoke grenade works to get Tarik into position to do what he needs to do, and those that don't, don't really factor into the discussion because logic doesn't usually apply to what they do anyway. Because those are the things that you kill, so they don't punish shit. The exception is the Hac Tao, but given his cost if you go and murder his order pool instead he doesn't get a whole lot done. ROFL. No they don't. Do some math. Tarik bloody crushes them. With a -3 MOD for rangeband Tarik still wins the firefight 40% - 24% and it only goes downhill if you do it from his actual good rangebands. Welcome to Fatality, it's a dumb as hell rule on high burst weapons and I hope 3rd offensive has done some fixing on it. Tarik trashes those in a FTF roll, we're talking 56% to 15% for a Yan Huo Neuro ML. Unless we're talking a Hac Tao in cover, with suppressive fire where it becomes basically a coinflip for either party scoring a wound. But the entire argument revolves around first turn rambo for player one, you don't get to go into SF mode unless my entire life is a lie and you can somehow deploy in SF mode.
Guyss I dont want to crush your nightmares but Rudra (especially K1) has some fierce opponents. OSS also doesnt have that much of mid field repeater presence.
Someone was mentioning that IA is really weak against other newest releases like OSS (K1+hacking) or TAK (T2 ammo). It sucks to be HI in T2 ammo world (MO player here) but actually atm. I only fear Vasily character. Regardimg jammers in PanO, its nice to have them but they wont be as frustrating like in Haqq. You probably wont spent much orders on those guys, rhey are "only" WIP13 and PanOn in 95% of time wont run more than 1 (jammer), plus they cost almost 6 times the Ghazi cost. They will by mostly usefull in L&S and similar missions with static important objective in/near own DZ (something whcib PanO couldnt do, bar partially ASA).
Rudras has a repeater built in though, so you could use him to move up, hack the HI on the other side of a wall, then move around and shoot him with the Rudras. Having played into that model it does alot of work, and people really underestimate the value of Mine Dispensers helping tear apart link teams or entrenched SF mode camo/mimetism models but that's not a surprise given it's not widely available or played equipment yet.
CB draws red lines and then smirks at us as they cross them (TAGs in links, MI is 4-2, HI has 2W or 1W+V:L2/3+Shock immune, etc). The Zhencha is an imitation/consolation Daofei for IA. 45% to make the ARM roll, so slightly less than 25% odds to survive. (Edit: I am dumb, and this is wrong). If it wasn't classified as a HI (and therefore hackable, adding another available attack vector), I would stop complaining. Or if it had Bioimmunity. It's also just a budget Daofei for Vanilla. Why did design space need to be opened for that? Liu Xing didn't need space opened because there was/is no AD in JSA. The design space excuse is starting to seem more like handwavium so Interruptor could do his fluff thing. Time will tell though, the rest of IA might justify it. I'm trying really hard to focus my negativity/disappointment on the Zhencha, and wait to see how the rest plays out. I agree though, it feels like if we try and raise any kind of criticism about what CB is doing, we get shouted down and told to quit the game. How is that helpful for anyone? Everytime I see someone tell someone else to quit, I get one step closer to quitting myself. And I don't really want to, but it's how many posters are making me feel. Probably others as well, but i don't want to speak for anyone. I've had decent results from the same strategy. It's less about them not having the strongest AROs and more about exploiting poor deployment choices. Also, in my experience, people aren't ready for for an aggressive first turn coming at them and find it hard to recover from the shock.
I'm upset about this as I bought Sun 1, like, the day before the IA list was spoiled... He seems like such a fit, especially if he's getting LT lvl 2 - so much command goodness... I guess I can always use him as a proxy for Tai Shang, or a test model...
Mate honestly.... Mines are DAM13 rolling 11+3=14 is a pass 1-10 are fails 11-20 are successes that's 10 out of 20 possible dice rolls which should translate to 50% Just for completion's sake Dodging a Mine is a PH-3 roll for a PH13 Zhencha 1-10 is a pass 11-20 are fails that's 10 out of 20 possible dice rolls which should translate to 50% 50% of 50% is 25% total chance to die to that Mine. It's late and this kept bugging me, just to settle it once and for all.
I was going to say they don't want Strategos lvl3 and Link teams to mix but then remembered ISS and OSS got just that... plus Post Humans lol.
