1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Invincible Army post mortem

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Haidao has none of those? Of course, the Red Fury could be a decent Moblot HMG wannabe.
     
  2. Ten Thousand Arrows

    Ten Thousand Arrows Imperial Sage

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    321
    It's (bait) posts with this level of delusion that make people seem like mindless fan boys, and honestly invalidate most of what you say. The faction was more than decimated (1/3 lost instead of 1/10). There were no ridiculous demands. There was no compensation or apology. Our reinforcements were CBLs.
     
    Furiat, Hecaton, BenMoss and 4 others like this.
  3. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    Most of that third was Garbage disposal and you still live in denial about it. It's what? 8 months down the line and the same people bitching about it as if it was an insult to their ancestors still haven't found it in them to accept that this is in fact reality and nobody cares about their whining. Not then, not now.
    Not to mention all the ridiculous claims how much the JSA Profiles contributed while downplaying how Vanilla got to keep much better alternatives to Raidens and Aragoto.

    Now this "muh reparations" bullshit starts before you even know what you'll get.
    Then there are some people who'd tell you in the same breath how great the Daiyokai or Shikami are while the Zhencha and Liu Xing are oh so terrible.
    You peoole are truly amusing. It's not that you're actively trying, but just in case you're not aware - YJ players are the entire community's laughing stock.
    If you're fine with that, by all means please continue.
     
  4. Space Cowboy

    Space Cowboy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    10
    I’ve been pondering the Liu Xing. I’ve no insight into how Explode LX works or will interact on the table, but I wonder if this new drop troop is a designed counter to the rise of linked remotes?
     
  5. Ten Thousand Arrows

    Ten Thousand Arrows Imperial Sage

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    321
    This post is further evidence for how toxic the fanboy fanatics are.
     
    Furiat, Pierzasty, Reservup and 4 others like this.
  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    Mate if you seriously believe I'm a fanboy you're further gone than even I thought you could be.
    Imho all of JSA's HI is garbage. Imho CB's playtesting is shit and Faction balance is a mess.
    What part of that is being a fanboy? Please, I'm begging you, tell me.

    Unlike certain people I'm not beyond help and can see the light sometimes. So while my personal oppinion is that I don't like the Liu Xing or Zhencha I'm at least able to admit that they are functional troops.

    Have a good one with your blind rage though.
     
    LuAn, krossaks and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  7. Ten Thousand Arrows

    Ten Thousand Arrows Imperial Sage

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    321
    No rage here, I think you're projecting. You were supporting Uprising using the "no one used the profiles as they were garbage" fallacy, despite them providing objectively unique gameplay for the faction.
     
    Furiat, Pierzasty, Hecaton and 3 others like this.
  8. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,555
    Likes Received:
    2,620
    Holy cow, the forums have gotten toxic.

    Guys, step back. We're talking about toy soldiers, in a game that's generally better balanced than most other toy soldier games. Have a beer (or a soda if you're underaged or non-drinker) and consider how much fun hanging out with fellow geeks playing games is. It's way better when we don't trash each other or the company making the game. It's fine to criticize balance, but please don't get all Captain Hyperbole and start insulting anyone individually, either forumites or developers.

    And I say all this despite being a general a-hole myself in the world at large. Infinity is where we come to have fun. Let's not pollute the pool, thanks.
     
    LuAn, Paegis, YueFei23 and 10 others like this.
  9. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    387
    One of the reasons I enjoyed the Uprising book is the (maybe unintentional) similarities to the interesting times we live in...
     
    YueFei23 likes this.
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,931
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    I have to agree now that speculating does nothing but lead you to disappointment! Your are setting your self up for it because any difference from what you had in your head as to the way you thought it should be is going to be disappointing. I've said the exact same things about Star Wars fanboys. The new movies are not the way THEY wanted it so therefore they are bad for them and everyone else by extension! So I'm going to try from now on, to not speculate and just take it in and deal with what's given. I may not like it but hey there's existing stuff I don't like. But still overall I still love this game and will keep going with it.
     
  11. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    Oh?
    Let's look back really quick. Accepting Profiles you don't like as viable in a bigger picture that isn't painted yet makes someone a fanboy.
    Dismissing IA and two relaitively useful Profiles before further consideration makes you the kind of guy with a claim as a righteous beacon of constructive criticism.

    Would you like to correct that assessment before I rupture my diaphragm?
     
    YueFei23 and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  12. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,848
    Likes Received:
    3,155
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    YueFei23, BenMoss and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  14. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    471
    What are the better alternatives to Raiden/Aragoto?

    Particularly the Aragoto: the only unit close is the Su-Jian, and that is an extremely different beast that costs 2x as much as the Aragoto.

    Shikami and Zhencha are pretty similar in role, but the Shikami is tougher in general (only the Marker State boosts the Zhencha's resilience to a similar level) and is both more mobile (Super Jump helps crossing roof, tops; PH14 and Kinematika L2 let it dodge much better) and a more powerful close ranged fighter (same BS, similar ranged weapons, vastly superior CC).

    That's not to say the Zhencha has no redeeming qualities (Camo, Infiltration and 1.5W is a fine set of tools; and the one good profile is decent), but you say that Uprising was garbage disposal (and CB said it was to make room for new design space) - and then we get units that are essentially the same and not actually dissimilar from the units we already had/have. The Zhencha is essentially a Daofei with a few different pieces of equipment in exchange (such design space); the Liu Xing is essentially a Tiger, but at least it has 1.99W so can function like an HI which gives it something.

    Finally: no other faction has had the same level of upheaval. CA lost their bugs, and while that is close, it's not nearly the same magnitude as Uprising (3 units vs a good 15, ignoring Mercs available to JSA and new units added in Uprising). You can downplay that if you want, but those units did bring things to the table that were different and interesting, if not necessarily good: Oniwaban were dicey, but were very different from pretty much everything else in YJ; Domaru were a good assault unit that could be used to disable hard targets, and they did it in a very different manner to the rest of YJ; Aragoto brought speed available only in the Su-Jian and that pressure is currently unmatched by anything in YJ.

    But no, nothing of value was lost. CB doesn't owe anyone anything, but they should be attempting to make a bad situation better (not for us, but because it makes business sense). They left a community to stew to for 8 months, and then the profiles they show us aren't actually particularly impressive in how they fit in to the YJ line up - they're very similar in role and purpose to units we already have (and not similar to the units we lost). That's not to say they're necessarily bad: I think the Liu Xing, depending on how Explode LX works, could be a solid disruption tool; and the Zhencha might work well on the table; but they're not great things to showcase to build hype for the Sectorial that's been hyped up for years, and is on the heels of a massively disruptive and divisive event.

    So people can laugh if they want to, it doesn't change my feelings on the topic. Hell, if you're concerned with what other people think of you, you need to learn to get over it because it's not worth the effort the majority of the time and especially on the internet.
     
    Xeurian, Furiat, Section9 and 11 others like this.
  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    Lamenting the loss of frankly terrible troops for Vanilla like Shikami or Domaru - while critisizing IA troops in IA for (imaginary) overlap in Vanilla might indicate the possibility you're just the tiniest bit biased.

    Spot the tiny hint of incoherent logic, I'm pretty sure most of you guys are smart enough.

    Another issue with the anti Uprising crew was that they're usually employing blanket statements and ofc you'll be right about at least one thing in a mostly grey area.
    What that doesn't include though, is any claim to actually have the foggiest what you're talking about. Gotta find the point where you draw the line and at least make an effort to work with the other side if your goal is actual improvement.
     
  16. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    1,832

    Can you tho?

    If the roster is released and its pure shit (wich I hope it isn't, dear Baal Hammon I hope it isn't) I guarantee you the same people that always champions CB will be there to tell you how you are wrong and should be grateful and to leave the game if you don't like it because Interruptor is a god among men and can do no wrong.
     
  17. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,848
    Likes Received:
    3,155
    In that case, I won't be hesitating to move out from, well, at least, this faction. I managed to stay firm on that Uprising, had a hope to show CB Yu Jing's not a bunch of whiners, joined the Kurage Crisis with full devotion.

    But if that all endurance be answered with utter salt, wheres the point to hold on? No one likes to be wrong, and yes if my effort and affection goes unanswered, I'll be wronged. Very wronged.
     
    Warhydra, Section9 and Badlazzor like this.
  18. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Why are Shikami terrible?
     
  19. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,848
    Likes Received:
    3,155
    Actually, bro. Those two units did hurt a lot. Could you tell me why shikami sucks? I see some people calling it 'Shit'kami, and it does make some questions for me.
     
    Aldo, Mruczyslaw and Kallas like this.
  20. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    471
    Shikami and Domaru are terrible? Oh, ok. So you're not...
    So how, precisely, are Shikami and Domaru terrible? I don't claim that they're the best ever, but they did things in YJ that other units did not (and still don't) do. I made a comparison between the Zhencha and Shikami, fundamentally they're fairly similar with some relatively minor differences in how they do similar things - but the point of that is more that Uprising, and the loss of those units, was to make design space: replacing them with a fundamentally similar unit is not new design space, it's ripping out a model so that someone can sell you another that does basically the same thing.

    Good talk.

    So, blanket statements cover making a quick side-by-side comparison of two units, one of whom is essentially a replacement for the other? Pretty sure that's the opposite of a blanket statement.

    As for knowing what I'm talking about: do I need to be the #1 Infinity player of the world to have a judgement? What are the qualifications? Can I go get a degree in Infinity Studies? I've made comparisons between the units, and I have found some of the Uprising reasoning unsound (ie, making new design space; then immediately filling it with a very similar unit). Surely improvements would be to make a unit that performs a similar role but with significant differences in application, the Liu Xing is a good example: what JSA unit being removed made the Liu Xing's design space open up? It wasn't removing the Tiger, of course. The Oniwaban? I guess that could actually be it! But then, they're so different in application and skills/equipment, that they're not even occupying the same role in a list any more. There's no particular similarity between a Liu Xing and an Oniwaban that warrants the removal of the Oniwaban.

    Finally; which other side are we talking about? CB, and their 'side' of taking away good/decent units to "make room"; or are we talking about other parts of the community, who apparently take pleasure in other people being unhappy? Because I don't enjoy being upset about things in my faction, I'd much rather be happy and enjoy them - but I don't try to pretend that new things are automatically good/useful, because that's disingenuous (both to myself and others). My first impressions of the Liu Xing and Zhencha aren't good; I'm actually warming up to the Liu Xing a little, and the Zhencha SMG could have some decent application - but at the same time, I would have quite liked to have my Shikami available for use in Vanilla, which had plenty of overlap with the Zhencha.

    It's simply not ok to not be totally on board with new things, that's the message I hear over and over; and while I can certainly understand the frustration at seeing people continue to be negative, that negativity isn't without foundation.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation