Isolated state and Command Tokens

As the rules are written I would say yes, as the only effect of isolated in that regard is that the trooper becomes irregular. It is nowhere stated that the trooper no longer belongs to the combat group or that you are not allowed to use a command token to transform the order, which would be the only things that would deny you to do so.

 

I second that.

 

I don't think so as it is only considered to be Irregular and isn't actually Irregular. Furthermore doesn't get added to the pool so would only be able to spend it on the Isolated trooper anyway.

Pretty sure this has been asked before with that outcome, although I could be wrong.

 

Only Regular Orders ever go to Order Pool:
"Only Regular orders go into the Order Pool. Irregular Orders, Impetuous Orders and the Special Lieutenant Order are not part of any Order Pool."

If Trooper is considered Irregular, I assume that means "behaves like Irregular in a certain regard". Which would mean he generates an order that irregulars normally generate, which is a subject of the Command Token usage in question.

 

Sure. Its not clear.

There was a thread in the old forum regarding Inspiring Leadership which said even if the order is turned Regular it isn't added to the pool to be able to be spent. Which is a similar situation.

So as I said. Even if you can flip it it can only be spent on that trooper anyway.

 

I don't see why though. Is it because of "considered"?
With this reading no trooper can ever be a Specialist Trooper because Doctors, FOs, SOs etc. are only "considered Specialist Troopers", actions with "Attack" label aren't Attacks because they are merely "considered an Attack" etc.

If you insist on that, I would like to ask to clarify how should we, accordingly to you, read this "considered" word so that everything after it in that sentence isn't rendered completely meaningless.

As for Inspiring Leadership. It outright replaces Training characteristic to match the one of the user. Said characteristic is the only thing that defines troopers as Regular or Irregular. I don't see how you even can creatively read that rule to the effect you are describing. It doesn't use funny language, it doesn't have weird timings etc. As far as I can tell, that is.

Now, back on topic. Tactical Phase instructions instruct us to add a Regular Order to the pool for every Regular trooper we have. There is no even such thing as "keep Regular Order for yourself" except cases that specifically instruct us to do so (HD, AD).

Irregular troopers generate an Irregular Order that is placed on the table. Unless you're saying "They are not actually Irregular" despite them being considered so by Isolated state's rules, or that Command Token usage in question doesn't actually have any effect by RAW, ever, I don't see how it's different from any other Irregular order there is.

 

Well that's the way it was ruled for Inspiring Leadership.

Edit

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...solated-status/?do=findComment&comment=624656

Which is a similar situation. So again. Even if you could flip it regular it looks like it will only be able to be spent on that trooper.

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...solated-status/?do=findComment&comment=624509

 

Please cite rules that allow us to do so.
Also, I would like to see your logic regarding topic in question. In fact, Inspiring Leadership issues should probably go into separate thread.

 

Edited above.

 

Not its not clear. Considered isn't always the same as being.

Logic is pretty straight forward. If you can get a regular Isolated troop then only they can spend that order still. Hence being a similar situation.

 

I see the reasoning. However, even naturally Irregular troopers never add their orders to an Order Pool, which is as specific as the wording in the Isolated state rules. Therefore we must make a conclusion that Orders turned Regular with a Command Token can never be spent on anyone other than a trooper who generates that Order, rendering that usage completely moot. Is that your logic?

"Considered X" usually means that something behaves in the same manner as X, but perhaps for a limited time or in a specific situation (which must be specified, otherwise it defaults to "for all intents and purposes"). Please provide your definition is you disagree.

 

• While Isolated, troopers cannot receive Orders from their Order Pool.
• If, at the start of his following Active Turns, the trooper is still Isolated, then he is considered to be Irregular and it does not add his Order to that Turn's Order Pool.

The trooper is considered to be irregular ie his training group is still whatever it was, be he is "treated as irregular" and his order isn't added to the pool. It doesn't actually state the trooper IS irregular (because then you could coordinate with irregular troopers or other nonsense). That's my reading on that at least.

N3 Frequently Asked Question Updated: 1.2
Q: Can a trooper in Isolate state take part in a Coordinated Order?
A: No.
Related Pages: Coordinated Order, Isolated

 

1, yes you can spend a command token and turn the units own order to regular order
2, u cant cordinate isolated units.

 

Just to clarify... if this is right, does that mean by doing so you won't be able to activate that trooper this turn?

• Iso trooper had irregular order.
• Use CT to turn irregular order into regular order, which then goes into the order pool of the combat group of the Iso trooper.
• Since Iso trooper can't use orders from the order pool, it can't be activated.

Or does the order turn regular but not become part of the order pool? Which would then make the conversion through CT pointless (as @Barrogh suggested)?

 

I honestly take issue with this reading. Like I said, wording of Isolated state telling us not to add order to the pool is almost identical to same instruction in "vanilla" Irregular rules. If we take it the way it is suggested here, then order conversion is basically broken and doesn't work at all.

Tactical phase rules actually don't even say much about regular or irregular orders. They just suggest that you add 1 order to the pool per Regular trooper, while Irregulars use their orders themselves. Terms "Regular order" and "Irregular order" were possibly intended to refer to orders that are added to the pool versus orders kept "on the table" for particular troopers, but it was never stated clearly, so here we are.

Then there are HD and AD instructing us to leave their orders for them to use, but that is explicitly formulated special case and I wouldn't say it allows us to infer something on the general nature or orders (for example that such thing as "Regular order kept for yourself" exists in theory).

On your other point, if we read rules in a way that allow us to use CT to turn an order generated by Irregular trooper into pool-going Regular order, then indeed, you aren't going to activate Isolated trooper that turn at all unless you remove Isolated state.

 

I never thought of that, I think you should not be able to do that, but this comes from the spirit of the rule, not the wording of the rule.

 

I agree with a psychoticstorm & Bobman (also Bobman give us links to @ijw words) - the isolated trooper can spend only his orders only to himself. he cant add it to order pool despite of his training or type of a given order.
even if you switch his order with a KT to regular, you cant add it to order pool & only can spend it on himself.
Only veteran troops ignore isolated state directly.
but it only my opinion

 

This thread wasn't mostly about adding orders to pools though...