Which doesn't really explain why Ariadnan HI can have all the same benefits (as we see with Vet Kazaks) but aren't hackable as the new definition of high-tech HI. I mean, what used to define a HI was 2+ wounds, 3+ ARM, 3+ BTS, Hackable unless you're low-tech like Ariadna, in which case you traded 1 wound and the BTS in for getting rid of Hackable and getting a decent discount. Even if we're looking at Zhencha and avoid comparing it to the newer premium MI (I have no doubt that Yadu aren't going to be alone among MI in having NWI and 4-4), we can look at Ariadnan HI and note that the Zhencha, again, managed to avoid the benefits. This is compounded because it seems like HI pays a premium for certain skills that MI and LI do not because a HI has had universally better stats, primarily Infiltration+Camo, and it seems to me that the Zhencha is paying that premium even if the stats on the Zhencha are comparable to a lot of MI. So, even if you might disagree, there is that last point where the definition really does matter.
Don't try to justify with the fluff what is only a gameplay balance issue. The only reason for the zhencha to not have a 2nd wound (or shock immunity of any kind) is because a discount, spammable daofei would be perfectly capable to win games on it's own. As he is now, being vulnerable to shock ammo (and more specifically mines) forces him to rely a bit more on the rest of the army: he needs a battering ram to open the door before he sneaks in the castle. I suspect this is also the reason why he doesn't have a killer hacking device, because cybermask would have trivialize his main weakness (again, mines).
He is a discount, spammable Daofei. The reason he has 1 W and NWI is to reduce the cost, that is the discount. I feel like you guys wanted this Sectoral to be a Zuyong core team backed up by Hac Tao, Daofei and an AD troop that looked like a Daofei but with AD instead of Camo, without considering that those troops are really expensive and this would not be a playable Sectoral. You wanted 10 troops with 2 W without spamming Zuyongs. Well... Obviously not? No? The Zhencha is a Zuyong with Camo and Infiltration who has discount guns and skills to get him to where he is now. What you want would be prohibitively expensive.
I thought everyone in Infinity were, but obviously the elite army for the second hyperpower is worse than a bunch of hillbillies.
Then you haven't read any of our self-hyped, hopes and dreams that we've posted about on this forum several times for the past year and more. You haven't read the numerous people writing that maybe the Remotes can act as order generators to a greater extent than before. You haven't read Section9 writing about how he'd want the stats on Zuyong to go down (namely BS and the dual Breaker Pistols) so that they can act as an optional order base for some of the slightly more powerful units. You haven't read me writing about how I envision ARM being the name of the game and how I'd like to see Grunt-like trooper take the place of Zhanshi. At no point has anyone actually written nor even hinted at what you allege.
He is a discount, too expensive to be spammable, too badly armed to be useful Daofei. I don't even know how would you spam this 34 points guy, let alone the 37 or 41 points one. Unless something silly like a Zuyong HMG core with 4 Zanshi happens the points waste is enormous. And that's not even going into why on earth would you want to spam it. One, sure, Invincible has nothing better so if you want midfield presence this is better than nothing, but more?
Exactly. Almost like the all-HI rock needs hacking paper to balance the game. I think there's in intentional weakness to mines (or at least a gamble on the ARM3), although a Zencha with climbing plus and stealth should be able to sneak around the more obvious traps...
My point is more that the collective YJ forum self-hype was unrealistic. Which I feel it was, and therefore, the reaction here has been coloured by that.
I'm not sure what is unrealistic about envisioning an army containing 5 sub-15 troopers and a mix of more premium HI or a list containing 9 zuyong and a Shang-ji using Core and possibly Haris as well to get efficiency. I mean the points all added up before the new releases, particularly if Zuyong had a small downgrade for the latter list.
What hype? You mean the "hype" that we thought it was realistic that we could get a HI sectorial, which literally isn't anything new or unique because JSA and MO have been doing exactly that for years? Or are you referring to the ridiculous strawman that's being peddled around that somehow YJ players expected 20 order 10 points HI?
It's not the only big discount on the zhencha because the decrease in stats is kind of impressive too. This is some shang-jì-to-zuyong kind of decrease we're talking about here, which nets 9pts on the zuyong (according to the multi rifle profiles). Admitedly it's slightly less on our case, so let's settle at 7pts. A daofei boarding shotgun is 48pts, 47 without the cc weapon. a zhencha FO with boarding shotgun and D-charges is 37pts. If you take out all the funky stuff (besides NWI) on the zhencha, you end up at 34pts. In the end, the jump from NWI to full fledged HI seems to cost around 6pts, which would make everyone's favorite zhencha profile (the smg one) a 40pts uber-optimized daofeï. Their HI get their ARM value and shock-immunity from their armor, but dodge and NWI comes from sheer ariadnese stubborness.
@Sedral to be perfectly honest, I'm a bit disappointed the Zhencha has actual Infiltration and a marker state. I was hoping for an HI compromise along the lines of Locust. Heh, it's both too good and too bad
Also, and with apologies to more learned friends, climbing plus and camouflage means you can climb in the Marker state. Which the Guilang cannot. Makes an interesting skirmish unit, especially in a HI faction... I'm more intrigued than anything else for the direction of IA.
Its pretty pointless to argue with this guy, pretty much ranked number one or two in Doing It For Free.
And I just wished to write, I hoped nobody in CB invented a "brilliant" control operative idea to substitute one's HI stats with their own to boost AD or infiltration or something else
I wonder why wouldn't they make Zhencha something like that Spoiler Does not look overpowered, shit-scared of mines, overpriced for the purpose of simple button-pushing... But allows you to put quite an annoying ant into opponents' pants. For a price, yes. Differs enough from both Guilang and Daofei to make it interesting addition to Vanilla. AND also makes it kind of Oniwaban-replacement without being copy of the the former. No BS of HI minuses but without HI pluses ofc, it's just beefy MI. But alas...
