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How Would You Rework The Infinity Range?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Del S, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Currently, the actual starter products (as in 'buy this to learn how to play the game') are the various 2-player Operation:whatever boxes.

    The various 6-model boxes are only called starters because 12 years ago 6-model boxes were what you bought to learn how to play the game (I actually still have one or two of the original Quick Start Rules pamphlets that were part of those boxes back then!). Now, I think that we could probably completely get rid of the 6-model starter for something like the JSA or USAriadna army packs. And then we bump the linkable unit boxes up to 5 or 6 models, no blisters except for characters.
     
    Berjiz, kanluwen, inane.imp and 2 others like this.
  2. Ursun

    Ursun Tough as Nails, Grim as Old Boots

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    And suddenly the whole "it´s a skirmisher, cheap to buy into, only needs a few models" lie falls apart.
    How would we drag innocent people into the game then, I ask? :D
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Australia's most popular online Infinity sellers ran a competition late last year where people designed 300pt "start a faction" sets that were designed to as a gateway for new players or old players wanting to start a new faction. They then packaged and sold the best submissions.

    You can buy a perfectly playable 300pt list with tokens and templates for under AU$200.

    http://toysoldierimports.com/infinity/tsi-300pt-starter-imperial-service-with-infinity-essentials/

    http://toysoldierimports.com/infini...-command-of-bakunin-with-infinity-essentials/

    http://toysoldierimports.com/infinity/tsi-300pt-starter-panoceania-with-infinity-essentials/

    http://toysoldierimports.com/infini...at-aggression-force-with-infinity-essentials/

    There's no reason that CB can't do the same: and they have the advantage of being able to massage the profiles to make it work (all those lists could be better by massaging the profiles a little).

    Their Corregidor one is a perfect example of how not to do it. But you can build a decent starter for Corregidor OR StarCo.

    [​IMG] Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 40)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] SEÑOR MASSACRE Breaker Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, E/M CCW. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] HELLCAT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 13)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    But, it'd be better purpose built.
     
    #63 inane.imp, Oct 4, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
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  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Funny, the Kill Team lists I've built require at least two boxes. ~25 models minimum purchase, just to get ~12 on the field. Somewhat cheaper because plastic, but you gotta buy the rules (That's another $130 big-box to get tokens and terrain and stuff, now you're up to a $200 minimum if you don't play what's in the box), and in order to play the 'real game' you'd need three-to-five times that, plus vehicles, plus command, etc.

    It still is an inexpensive skirmish game, played with 10-20 models per side, and 20 is highly unusual. It's not a teaser-starter like Kill Team or Necromunda (or Shadow War Armageddon), where the 'real game' is $500 minimum buy in, plus terrain.

    The real game of Infinity is a ~$200 buy in (JSA starter plus Domaru and Tanko boxes). Buying 'one of everything' (read: Full AVA) for your sectorial is maybe $400, which is less than a minimum starting army in 40k, even for Marines. Yeah, you do need a lot more terrain than 40k, even more than a 40k Cityfight. Not going to lie to you there.

    But when an "innocent" GW refugee comes along, the number in their brain for a new army is $500. So you just point out that you get a lot more terrain with your "starting army" budget. Buying $100-150 worth of PlastCraft ColorED terrain makes a nice start.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    And then, when you're hooked, you spend £400 on terrain, €100 on magnets, £100 on paints and sprays, €270 on a larger work desk and every bit of free time you have the following to cut terrain, assemble terrain, paint terrain, weather terrain only to realize that you need to spend a further €50 on boxes to store this new terrain for transport and a further €50 on plastic aquarium plants so you can further decorate the terrain and add Saturation, visibility and terrain zones.

    ... I just realized I'll need even more magnets to make those terrain zones truly modular...
     
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  6. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Its interesting.
    Players I know are mostly focused around commuities/gaming clubs, so terrain isnt a problem.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Clubs/communities have terrain so players cluster around them, most players are members of communities/clubs, so most players you don't have a terrain issue.

    It's the same reason that watering holes in the savannah have the highest concentration of wildlife.

    But yes, it does mean that most players don't need to purchase terrain. It also means that Infinity is probably more club/community focussed than less terrain dependent tabletop games.
     
  8. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Another thing is, I cant imagine even less terrain dependent game that isnt focused around club/store due to competetive nature of games.
    Excluding small (as per playerbase) games, mostly owned by 10 people max in country and played by maybe 3;P
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I grew up only playing WFB and Necromunda with my brothers. I've only ever played Magic with a few mates over beer.

    I can't imagine only playing Infinity that way, because of the terrain overheads. I think the terrain overheads push the club/community mode of playing more so than for less terrain dependent games.
     
  10. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Drop everything old and ugly.

    Current blister size is 1 or 2, box size is mostly 4, or 1 or 2 for big stuff, so merge stuff until the upper limit is reached. 2 troop blisters, 4-6 troop boxes or keep the current size, if a box can't fit more (like TAGs, Antipodes, whatever).

    Merging of single blisters already begun, maybe speed that up (there's still separate Sukeul K1 and ML, solo Sakiel, whatnot, suppose there are examples all over the factions).

    Character boxes. Put 4-6 characters into a single box. Usually you only need one of each (except for Joan, you obviously need a full Core of them), so why not get them in a single batch?

    Currently boxes are either starters, so mixed units with basic weapons (or on the contrary, more SWC than a 300pt list can hold), or SWC boxes for the same troops. So introduce mixed boxes, like starters, maybe not call them starters though. This can be 4 or 6 troops. Maybe put a whole range of a troop together. Merge the cheerleaders from starters with it's SWC box. Have all the fusiliers!

    Create boxes that make sense as a whole, like a full Core team, full, but mixed Core team (Vet Kazak HMG, 3 Line kazak rifles as cheerleaders and a Frontovnik totally make sense) or two triads (2 HFT Makaul, Sukeul HMG, Sakiel LRL, Kosuil with Nullifier and the odd Kamael paramedic).

    Maybe drop some sectorials.

    Usually after you buy an SWC box and maybe the starter, you are still missing something. Like for ASA you have 4 regulars, 4 Bagh maris, you can buy the extra Bagh mari hmg, but can't have the 5th Regular. So it still feels incomplete. Try make boxes that make sense in list building (so no Bolt paramedic).
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The Stockholm scene, as far as I am aware there is only really one group of people in Stockholm*, doesn't have a club as such. We revolve mostly around a store called Alphaspel which does have tables, but only one board's worth of Infinity terrain that's getting a bit worse for wear since it's a terrain set that isn't cared for by the 40k club the has regular hours in the store's gaming area and that owns the store's terrain.

    Instead we have a bunch of terrain enthusiasts which ranges from one person creating innovative works of art to my own more functional tables and most of us who has tables of terrain are able to produce two or more tables which we store in our homes. Personally I am filling a 5x5 Ikea Expedit with terrain, tools and work in progress (miniature storage is separate).
    I am not entirely sure how many tables we are able to produce from people's closets and garages, but I'm confident we'll not have to dip too deep into our Red Veil and Ice Storm emergency stashes now that we are prepping for a satellite tournament early next year.

    * This does not count the wonderful people in Dalarna, Linköping, and more that we visit and receive visits from.
     
    #71 Mahtamori, Oct 4, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
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  12. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Didn't know that X-Wing has such a small number of players :P
    And you are overlocking the whole ammount of casual player.
    We are trapt in our own filter bubble so we can't see all other player :D
     
  13. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    I said that even less terrain focused games tend to focus around stores/clubs, because of competetive nature of games.
    THATS X wing for You;) And lots of other games, like 40k, AoS, Shadespire etc etc.

    I am overlocking whole amount of casual player, as since my beginning with tabletop games I tend to encourage them to play in store/club, so yes, its mostly my experiance.
     
  14. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Guys it's already starting.

    Check Coldfront.

    OSS:
    - Deva
    - Yadu


    This means that CB need to release 2 boxes (box of Yadu, box of Deva) to give all options to field 5 of each (additional Deva will be in Dakini SWC box, then DEVA box will probably have Devabot or so)

    Same for TAK:
    - VetKazak
     
  15. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    We have spitifre deva blister incoming, soooo....;)))
     
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  16. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    Problem is, we have seen renders for a new Deva and the Daikini SWC. They weren't together.
     
  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Werent the Deva Spitfire part of Dakini SWC box ? Mind that (as far as I know) we only saw 3 Dakini (bit low for full box).
     
  18. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    The two units had seperate renders. They could be together in theory but it's not consistent with previous render previews.
     
  19. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Keisotsu and Kempetai were also shown together ?
     
  20. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    I think so. The Grenzer and Securitates certainly were.
     
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