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What's your opinion about CB's way of dealing with FRRM/ASA?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Stiopa, Sep 20, 2018.

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What's your opinion about CB's way of dealing with FRRM/ASA?

  1. I'm an FRRM/ASA player, and I'm happy with the way my sectorial is being handled

    24.4%
  2. I'm an FRRM/ASA player, and I'm not happy with the way my sectorial is being handled

    9.6%
  3. I'm an FRRM/ASA player, and I don't have a clear opinion on the issue

    3.0%
  4. I'm not an FRRM/ASA player, and I'm happy with the way they're being handled

    32.6%
  5. I'm not an FRRM/ASA player, and I'm not happy with the way they're being handled

    11.9%
  6. I'm not an FRRM/ASA player, and I don't have a clear opinion on the issue

    11.1%
  7. It's complicated (please explain below)

    7.4%
  1. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    What? https://infoautonomos.eleconomista.es/fiscalidad/impuesto-de-sociedades/ 25% on profits as they are neither new, a coop, a fundation nor investment. Spain is fucked WRT to business, but in other senses (like self employed workers having to pay a "fee" irrespective of if there was any income (not profit), which kills any small side job that could become a real one; or the paperwork needed for everything).
     
  2. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    It may not be the actual corporate tax itself that causes the issue. For example, in my home state of New South Wales, there's a 5.45% tax on wages paid to employees once your wages paid exceed $850,000 annually, other Australian states implement similar taxes but with different rates and thresholds.

    While our federal corporate tax on a companies P&L is essentially a flat 30% (there's some allowance for certain companies to pay a lower rate) larger companies do tend to start to attract additional taxes at both a state and federal level.
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    There's usually tax breaks that apply to smaller companies, IIRC the last time we talked about this there was a tax break for companies employing less than 50 employees.
     
  4. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    So, we split the A! production into a sister company?

    As an aside, I want a trophy from CB if the third army on the chopping block is once more one of mine. So far they have had 100% accuracy in shelving armies I play, so I suspect bostria is spying on me....
     
    #84 theradrussian, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
    Abrilete likes this.
  5. Ursun

    Ursun Tough as Nails, Grim as Old Boots

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    just to fu with them you should only play ISS from now on... the shitstorm once they kill it would be cataclysmic!
     
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  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    For me, it's complicated.

    Unlike the JSA split, FRRM and ASA players haven't had their models invalidated. They've merely had CB tell them that the army they love is unlikely to get a proper update in the future (considering how long FRRM took just to get to that stage, 5-6 years is the minimum to hope for here). Had they left the Yu Jing side of the JSA untouched, then I may have even commended them for leaving us a "loyalist" option (but that would require re-writing vast swathes of the shitty Uprising fluff, so that isn't happening).

    On the other hand, this "problem" (to many fucking SKU's) is entirely CB's fault, and now their fans are suffering for their lack of foresight and planning.

    CB could have started solving this long ago. They could have sought to reduce list bloat and rules bloat with N3 and the Human Sphere re-print. Instead, we got more units and more bloat making going forward without change almost impossible.

    They could have released unit boxes with more robust options and multiple ways to build them instead of giving us a bunch of single-purpose boxes and blisters. There is no reason that line troopers need to have two boxes and some blisters to cover their options. Back when CB were a boutique mini outfit and most folks played 10-man squads and we had no fire teams, this was fine. Boxes weren't the norm, you tended to mostly run lists of singletons, and the sculpts tended toward more flowing and dynamic poses. But these days we have cookie-cutter static CAD poses, re-used assets across factions, and poses that make equipment swaps easy (all those 90's style rage fists, or folks waving their weapons about like loons). We've lost all reason to continue releasing things like perfect, precious Confrontation-style boutique sculpts and Infinity is basically a half-strength platoon skirmish game these days.

    But instead of using their scale swap to change how they released things, they went on squandering the opportunity and it has resulted in, to no one's surprise, a massive bloat in SKU's because of poor forward planning on CB's part.

    Worse still, CB are being really bad at communicating their intentions, again. Sure, most ASA folks that are established will be fine, but how many people started the game in the last few months and picked up ASA only to find that they either have to go all in now, or potentially have wasted their time because CB remains tight-lipped about what is getting canned until their stock runs low and they want to start a panic buying rush to run through it.

    In general, while I think the method they're using to grandfather these older lists is better than the way the JSA split was handled, I also think it still isn't ideal because it was caused by CB's poor planning and could have been avoided and mitigated long before now. They're making the best of a bad situation, but they created that bad decision and it is obvious that this crossroads has been coming up for years. Hell, we were talking about the risk of army, model and sectorial bloat back when the original Human Sphere dropped and folks were surprised at the size of the sectorials in it and wondered if the game could even fit a second book of that scope before collapsing under its own weight. The obvious answer was "no" but instead of using both a new edition and a rework of how they sculpt models to remedy this, they kept slogging ahead as if this was a problem to be dealt with down the line instead of something to mitigate early.

    And in the midst of all of it? CB still sucks at communicating and haven't gotten any better. They need to get better, but at some point folks need to stop giving them chances to fix it and just walk away until CB actually get the hint, pretty minis be damned. I refuse to watch another company run head first up its own ass like Game Workshop did back in the 90's and 00's (or Rackham for that matter) when they thought they were above listening to fans and could do no wrong. Sadly, it really feels like if CB were going to change, they would have done it already.

    Given the circumstances, I can't see what they could do differently now, but they are the ones who created these circumstances and now they're inconveniencing fans with a last-minute solution instead of fixing the problem back before it became a problem. Now the game feels even more bloated than end-of-life 2nd Edition and it feels like armies are going to start cycling out on the regular like fucking sets in Magic the Gathering. This was preventable, this has been a discussed issue for years, CB should have done more to mitigate it sooner, especially if "grow the company" (which is the more ideal solution rather than forcing stagnation) is not in the cards for them.
     
  7. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    They stopped being <50 time ago. They even went from SLL to SL recently (similar in general but with conditions about owners and workers, which maybe was the stopper... but changing isn't impossible, as demostrated). They are over 10 years old, so no "young company" exemptions either.

    In part, they already did. A big part of manufacturing is outsourced, design and extra skins still inhouse.
     
  8. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    I am afraid I have but one like to give you, good sir. Spot on.
     
  9. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    What "Yu Jing side" of JSA? JSA was basically its own army from the outset. There's been a few profile changes since then and a few renamed units but seriously, equating these two situations to one another is patently ridiculous.

    JSA specific players, to pull a line from the people talking about SAA/FRRM, were still "good to go". They already had most of the stuff they'd have needed or an exceedingly close facsimile.

    I have more I could say, but seriously:
    JSA players. You're fine. Your stuff isn't being discontinued. You're now your own army. Stop trying to play it like you've gotten a raw deal.

    Yu Jing players got a bit of a shaft with the removal of the JSA Sectorial with regards to their unit counts, but most of the stuff that left with JSA wasn't really taken in vanilla and it wasn't in ISS or any further YJ sectorials to begin with.
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    He... didn´t?

    Unlike is literally the first word in the stuff you quoted.
     
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  11. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    The following words though make it a comparison...? That's how language works.
     
  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    No, we just got fucked in the fluff, almost as bad as the Imperial SS did.


    Only Raiden HRLs, Oniwaban, and bikes. You know, unique attack options...
     
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  13. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    Yeah, from where I stand, going from "Yu-Jing's Suicide Squad" to "PanOceania's Proxy Warriors" isn't exactly an upgrade. True independence will come from trading with, rather than being supplied by.
     
  14. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    I haven't commented yet as I have been thinking about it a bunch and reading other posts. I think I am happy with the idea that CB is stream lining their product range. That said I am not thrilled with the way they are doing it. There are tons of ways to reduce SKUs without removing Sectorials. I'm sure a few weapon options included in the SWC or Starter packs would go a long way. You can also double pack a lot faster than things have been going with little impact for customers. Even then get rid of old stuff first before going sectorial removal.

    Of course all my worries will be ignored if they do revisit these sectorials in a couple years, I'm just worried that wont be the case.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's a comparison explaining why the two are different and how they could have been made more similar. You two are arriving at fairly similar conclusions.
     
  16. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I don't think I've seen any complaints from players who primarily played JSA, I think you must have misread the comment you were quoting.
     
  17. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    I meant to put air quotes around "JSA" as there seems to be a disconnect between people who primarily played JSA and those who just took some JSA stuff that they used for vanilla YJ. The ones most upset about JSA's split off seemed to be from the latter from what I was seeing.

    Uprising's fluff was awful for everyone involved. So was the immediate aftermath. Somehow Ariadna missed an entire network of Combined Army bases being built on their soil? The Merovingians get destroyed as a combat effective force from one failed attempt to take out one of these bases?
    And that sucks but it's not like they were used outside of Vanilla or JSA now is it?

    We might have to agree to disagree on the reading of the statement though. I'm not getting the same read from it as you are. He and I might have similar conclusions, but I just don't see any helpful reason to bring up JSA as an example.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Sure, that's a valid point, and I agree.
    This is a bit of a tautology. Most units belong only to one sectorial. Personally I'm a bit miffed that they didn't have the guts to go all the way and replace the Ninja in ISS while nuking everything else, but let's try and not make this about Yu Jing, okay?
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    For what it's worth, it was one emplacement, that they came across by accident (by being shot down) on their way to setting up a Merovingian beachhead on Kurage island. And Ekranoplans have massive payloads. A flight of three of them (if the size of the KM) would have about the same payload as 30 Hercules transporters.
     
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  20. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    I'm inclined to agree with you on the Ninja part, but the cynic in me says they wouldn't do it since the most recent Ninja model comes in Red Veil.
     
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