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How Would You Rework The Infinity Range?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Del S, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    As you may know, Corvus Belli are on a quest to keep down the Stock Keeping Units in production, for reasons that are ultimate too fiddly and contentious to get into full details in what will hopefully be a mostly lighthearted thread, but will no doubt be 2019's version of Tactical Rocks and Resetting Clocks (No Longer Make The Box?) if something better doesn't pop up. We'll say it's a cost-issue and leave it at that for the moment. The target is 50 SKUs in production per army, I hear, and I'm not sure of specifics but we'll go with that number right now.

    So, what would we do if we were in charge of this grim and yet necessary task of keeping things somewhat economical? And better yet, can we find ways to shoehorn in some of the "missing" weapons and mini options out there into the bargain since we're dreaming anyway?

    As this is entirely hypothetical (and CB will likely have considered any ideas we'll suggest anyway) we don't really need to worry about how much it would cost to make our changes, or how long it could take, etc. CB of course do, which is probably why they're doing whatever they choose to do (at least 95% of the time) and we can if we want to, but since this is all more for fun, well, your call.

    I'm going to make two flawed assumptions now: First, Mercs and NA2 minis have their own SKU count and therefore any "merc" mini a faction has is part of their count, and SKU means just a box or blister without consideration of other factors around them - and SKU is all we worry about. The economics of repackaging, remaking, and actually selling them are likely way more complex that I'm about to assume, so I'm under no illusions about 90% of what lies below is nearly impossible.

    * * * * *​

    Personally, I'd rework the current format of SWC boxes and blister packs across the board, and embrace the idea of conversion packs a bit (plenty of us want 'em, but they may well be uneconomical). SWC packs could now have up to 5 or 6 models and a price tag maybe boosted by about €3-10 in some cases *proceeds to not then actually give any examples of such cases*

    I'd stop putting in the hackers and paramedics when there's other actual weapons to choose. They can be nice minis, but they can just be any basic rifle troop much of the time - dedicated hackers and the like are wasteful IMO.

    Line/Garrison AVA Total troops could have a different approach: They can be up to six minis to retain the "hacker" and "paramedic/observer" options, or they can have an extra set of regular rifle arms for each of the four minis in there to drop to being basic troops, with a small price rise.

    But for a more specific and detailed example I'll use the Nomads (57 nomad SKUs if we count "nomad" options on the store, 58 if we include the 300pt box, and we treat beyond and 2 player starter boxes as half an SKU each for 59 max). Starting with Corrigedor: currently, only Morans, Tomcats, Carlotta, and the Starter aren't N3 standards AFAIK.

    So starting off with CJC:
    And that's just one sectorial (with one all-faction box replaced too), maybe an outlier in how much pruning can be done, but done nonetheless. Bakunin can feel the swift hand of vengance benefits of some pruning too.


    We're now down to 16 freed-up SKUs, so to keep it all below 50, Tunguska gets a spare 9 to use before anything of theirs is scrapped/merged/replaced. The sectorial is of course new, but could stand to have some possible changes in future/to what already exists, and this is all nonsense anyway so:
    Now there's pretty much the whole Nomad range, bar the odd weapons option here and there, available in a mere 42 boxes and blisters. Frees up to 8 SKUs for another army to use, or even to add some Black Hand chaps and make a fourth sectorial/additional NA2 faction. And even better, if we worry about the economics of this, including doing it all at once, it'd only cost *mumble mumble carry the one* €90 billion!

    Wait shi-

    Ahem, anyway, how about everyone else, any ideas?
     
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  2. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    Biggest thing I would do is remove single model blisters that are not characters. Either double them up like the repacks or merge them into SWC boxes. Looks like they are slowly doing that anyway so thats nice. I'd also simply remove any really old sculpt and devote some design time to ensuring all old models are up to new standards before releasing new blisters (keep boxes as new exciting stuff).
     
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  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    I'd start by introducing bigger SWC boxes with six models instead of four, and folding most blisters into boxes (either four or six models, depending on unit). This would also allow to introduce more sculpt variety, more universal proxies in a unit, etc.

    Of course SKU number is one issue, production capability is another one. I strongly suspect, that CB phases sectorials out because otherwise they might have a problem with the latter.
     
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  4. Insane Cheese

    Insane Cheese Member

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    At this point, they could easily reduce SKU bloat by combining all the blister for stuff into a box. Hellcats, Wildcats, Intruders, Sun Eaters all save 1 SKU by combining. Prowlers you save 2. Move Cat Girl Daktari into the Support Box, package pilots with TAGs etc. Most of the bloat is stuff that has multiple blisters.

    I like the idea of a faction weapon blister, but I'd rather see it as a sprue of say SWC weapons and a couple of combi + multi rifles.

    Edit:

    Just thinking, instead of a starter being 3x LI/MI, 1xHI, 1xSK, 1xSWC option(or whatever), why not make them the 3xLI/MI+SWC box + others. Most people start a new sectorial with the starter, so jamming the entire link option into the box makes sense. And the boxes get closer to 200. Sure your $50Au starter becomes $75, but your getting twice the minis.
     
    #4 Insane Cheese, Sep 20, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
    Del S likes this.
  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I would collapse the sectorials in to 3 max per army, moving some to other sectorials or Vanilla only, and removing redundant troops. Might not be enough but that would go a long way.
     
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  6. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I think I'd keep a few blisters around, there are some very high-selling models that are single blisters (that's actually why the Nomad Catgirl is not in the Support Pack, she is one of the most popular models of all time, and month after month). Characters, mostly.

    Hackers would be a head swap extra bit in the box, or just a fitted visor bit to put over a helmet. Jazz Hands arm swap optional. Paramedics would be an arm swap.

    Probably need to consolidate just about everything into a few starter boxes and SWC boxes. All the MI and HI into 4+man boxes. Maybe 10-man starters.

    I think I'd also make some design changes to the REMs, to make it easier to magnetize them for their different variants.
     
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  7. redeemer

    redeemer Well-Known Member

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    I like where section 9 was going with the REMs I would go even step furder and make them a plastic set with spare parts that can make any REM you need even with the extra bits you will save on cost by switching to plastic, I would escalate the scale of the battles too and introduce new 500 and 1k battle boxes, as far as missing weapon options go a simple arm swap will do so adding few extra arms with weapons to the special weapon boxes will solve that problem and boost the sales number right now we each get mot more than 1 or 2 boxes of most models if we had the extra parts and had to fight in larger scale we will logically buy the same sets a few times, not unlike the way we build armies in 40k for example.
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Plastic has a huge startup cost, though. We're talking on the order of a year's salary for a machinist to cut the metal tool (mold), then the multi-million-dollar machine to melt/inject the plastic, etc. So you'd need to sell tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of each sprue/kit type.

    And you really don't want to know how many pieces you'd need to get around the mechanical limitations of rigid metal molds as opposed to the flexible rubber (well, RTV silicon) molds used for metal models.

    People were bitching and screaming about the parts count on the Robotech RPG Tactics minis, mid-20s per model (about the size of S5 heavy infantry). The same shapes as metal models? 4 pieces (2 arms, torso, legs&hip joint), just so you can have a waist joint to twist. You could do it in 3 if you were OK with all the models being identical. (I'm talking about the Tomahawk Destroid/Warhammer Battlemech here, not the Valkyries. Valks were more like high-30 parts per model, and 3 models per trooper, one for each combat mode!)

    Massive learning curve involved, with very expensive costs for each error.

    It's why CB refuses to go plastic.
     
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  9. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    I've seen estimates that something like the Land Raider would cost GW up to £50k to develop today if they didn't already have much of the infrastructure already. As it is, that one tank mini probably earns more profit than any ten minis from competitors combined.
     
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  10. Insane Cheese

    Insane Cheese Member

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    While I’d love multipose plastics, as has been said startup costs are prohibitive. They won’t escalate the battle size, most people are into Infinity for the <20 mini game size.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  11. redeemer

    redeemer Well-Known Member

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    you guys make a fair points but CB does have the tech to make plastic minis aristea is all plastic minis, as for the game size escalation, that is the natural evolution of the game, if you remember in the first two versions of the game the avg game size was around 150 points, then it went up to 200 now it is 300. The same is true for other skirmish games even old games like warhammer fantasy and 40k, both started small, and now after a bunch of editions, the armies are out of hand. As for infinity, it can just get like a book of alternative rules for larger engagements same way 40k have its kill team and necromunda.
     
  12. Insane Cheese

    Insane Cheese Member

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    Fair call, though if your escalating the game and need a different rules to to play, arguably you're no longer playing Infinity.

    And the Arestea plastics are... not super great. Its PVC iirc, not hard styrene like GW.

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
     
  13. Ursun

    Ursun Tough as Nails, Grim as Old Boots

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    Yeah but Aristeia is not HIPS plastic (the standard hard plastic GW uses) but those softer, more rubber like mixtures who are cheaper to produce.
    And they clearly (not yet) up to the quality the deliver in metal.

    But why not, instead go for good, high quality Resin, like Prodos regular Resin/Unicast.
    yeah I know, the name carries its own baggage, but the quality they deliver is outstanding, especially for the pricepoint.

    Other than that, repacking everything into bigger boxes (with some spare parts) there really is not much CB can do to reduce numbers.
    Well besides axing a sectorial everytime a new one comes out, to finally end up in a vicious on-off cycle, where armies are on ice for years, people screaming in dispair and comparing CB to GW xD
     
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  14. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    GW didn't even pay the initial costs for their plastic switch, they bought out an existing company that already had the capability (and for several years continued its existing product line, so GW produced some very "odd" stuff under a different name) as it was functionally cheaper. While the modern plastics have improved by leaps and bounds, the single-cast game pieces are simply not in the same league as metal sculpts; and while I love Malifaux minis, and they're IMO the best, most detailed styrene plastics being mass produced at the moment (and a good couple of generations better than any of the crap GW produces), they're still not up to CBs standards.
     
  15. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Off-topic: injection-moulded plastic set-up costs are almost all in the tooling, and having sculptors with a very different skill-set. The actual injection machinery is in the same kind of region as a spincaster and crucible. Note that what makes it cheap for GW to do plastics is that they produce the actual moulds in-house.

    The PVC models for Aristeia! are produced in China, not directly by CB, and aren't anywhere near good enough for Infinity itself.
     
  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I'd go to six mini expansion box formats (Grenzer ML, Grenzer Spitfire, Grenzer with Breaker Pistol as a universal proxy, Perseus, Securitate Feuerbach, Securitate MSR for example).

    But the trouble is, while they are good for SKU numbers they're more difficult for the producer and consumer in almost every way (more concepts and work needed per box, higher purchase cost per box turns people away etc). Spartan Games did that, wasn't a hugely good idea.
     
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  17. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    It looked better on a shelf but CB blister packaging is pretty slick, also from being on the FLGS end of it more SKU's are better IMO.
    I hated that with the Spartan stuff in the end: I would like an additional squadron of donnerfaust, RRP about £10 unfortunately they must be bought with a unit of zerstorer bombers you don't want in the same box RRP about £15 and another sturmbringer you're cool with but not fussed about RRP £8. Box price £25, not really a bargain when you want the bit for £10.

    This I assume is much the same with JSA player who want a tac-bow ninja.

    Good business for box splitters however.
     
  18. Hansolo

    Hansolo Well-Known Member

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    1) Drop the vanilla starters. Make only sectorial starters, with one as "recommended for vanilla". CB already started this (new Ariadna and Aleph starters, Haqqislam starter).
    2) Move from 4 men to 5 boxes (don't release 4 men box + single blister to fill up unit).
    3) For the love of God, stop with 3 men + tinbot nonsense.
    4) Release as many double/triple/quadruple blisters as possible (example: when time comes for the new Tanhunter just make triple blister with AC+HMG+ML).
    5) Last but not least - simply drop EVERYTHING that wasn't CAD-sculpted:
    - Morans? Axe them!
    - Bao Troops? Bye bye!
    - NCA starter? Into oblivion you go!
    etc. Maybe some little exceptions for those few models that are still awesome and still suits the current style (Noctifers).

    But that's just me, I have no experience in retail, miniature casting, wargaming development or running a business.
     
  19. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    And that was in the 80s/90s. GeeDubs produces some detailed stuff these days but CBs metals are a good bit ahead.

    While we're being brutal but entirely correct, tinbots are pretty much just a marker for equipment, so why bother with them in any box? Same with Koalas and the like to some extent, though they at least have actual ARO consequences.

    I missed out a thing on the sin-eaters. We have an HMG, but there are three other weapons they get, and an old sniper rifle out there. Fix? Two Sineater blister, either alt weapon option, and/or a mini with a pistol out to proxy anything among the pair. Like, sniper aiming, has mk12 alt arm, spitfire has the FistPose™ and the other arm is either spitfire up or pistol aimed.
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Don't you dare touch Santiagos or KotHS (as minis, KotHS rules should die in the Eye of Terror, or Mount Doom)
     
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