Can of Worms - G: Marionette/Puppetbots

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by paraelix, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    G: Marionette lets troops function "like a Fireteam: Core" but also kinda aren't a Fireteam core. This present an issue;

    Combined Army Evo Hacking Program - Exile
    Can this target puppets? If so, breaking the link means none of the puppets are attached... Meaning they all go disconnected?
     
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  2. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    Huge if true.
    I think at the very least you would be able to target them with it, not sure how breaking it would work.
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Technically a Troupe is not a Fireteam: they follow the Fireteam rules. Exile isn't part of the Fireteam rules and can only target members of Fireteams.

    You can't Exile a Puppet.

    BUT it's a good question, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong.

    I'm aware that the same logic means that Number 2 also won't work. However since Number 2 is nested with G: Marionette it's clearly intented to work.

    Basically: G: Marionettes treat their own Troupe as a Fireteams but other things do not except where explicit.
     
    #3 inane.imp, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
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  4. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    • The members of a Troupe will apply the rules for a Fireteam: Core of two or three members, depending on their number.
    what is this line for then, I'd assume bonuses but it doesn't point them out specifically.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    "The members of the Troupe" =/= the Hacker using Exile.

    "Apply the rules of" =/= Is a member of

    That's the core problem.
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    As per the other identical question (I'm assuming you played against each other!), sure. They're a Fireteam, Exile can target Fireteam members.
     
  7. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    does it just act as an isolation, or does it break everything once it goes through?
     
  8. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Close. We're both members of the same Facebook community where the question came up :)
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    It'll follow the normal rules for Exile. I think you're reading too much into this. ;-)
     
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  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    what happens when the fireteam breaks though? do all the bots disconnect?
     
  11. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    so just to be clear, a successful exile attack on any member (only the puppets) in the troupe results in all of the puppets being broken from the link and disconnected until the remainder are reformed?
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Yes. As happens in any other situation where the Fireteam gets cancelled.
     
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  13. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    cool, thanks
     
  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Except when the Fireteam gets cancelled because there is no other non-null Puppet within coherency of the Troupe Leader?

    Because in that situation the Troupe Leader is still not disconnected, right?

    Edit: or in circumstances where a non-Troupe Leader gets Exiled?

    “This does not apply when:
    The number of members of a Troupe is reduced to one: that trooper will keep being activated by its Controller's Order.
    The Troupe is cancelled: then the Troupe Leader (and only the Leader) will keep being activated by its Controller's Order.”

    Ie “All bots go Disconnected” only occurs when the Troupe Leader is exiled. Otherwise the Troupe Leader will still keep being activated by its Controller’s Order.

    And even then if you apply Isolated, No 2, Cancel Fireteam then you’d be able to appoint a new Troupe Leader to continue activating.
     
    #14 inane.imp, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    So if I deploy a Marionetter troupe of three puppets, I am unable to deploy a Haris?

    I'd say the analogy is not totally accurate... since puppets are kinda like Syncronyzed remotes...

    Basically what I am reading is that a Exile either sends the whole Troupe Disconnected, or just one... o none :S
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Good point, the Team Leader would still be connected if they weren't the target of Exile.

    No? It's not a Haris, it's a 'second' Core.
     
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  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Ok, but if the "Troupe" is all disconnected (leader/troupe ate the Exile), can it be effectively "reformed" like a "standard" Fireteam ?
     
  18. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    What would stop it?
     
  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    What prevents No 2 activating to allow you to name another Troupe Leader if the original Troupe Leader was the target of Exile?

    The answer "because Exile cancels the Fireteam" imposes an order of operations which is not required. If you apply all the effects simultaneously then No 2 works as a consequence of Isolated exactly the same as Cancelling the Fireteam.

    Edit: if anything the implicit order of operations is that the cancellation happens at the end of the order (ie after resolving step 9) whereas No 2 activates in the Conclusion (step 9) of the order.

    From the Fireteam cancellation rules:
    "If the Team Leader goes enters the Isolated state or any Null state. The cancellation occurs automatically at the end of the Order in which the Team Leader enters into one of those states."
     
    #19 inane.imp, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  20. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    I don't think anything does, but you still wouldn't have a Fireteam, just a different single Connected PuppetBot.
     
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