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NFB, optional and leveled skills

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by dlfleetw, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    Can I use the NFB label to lower a level of Caml to say, mimetism and how so?

    Or is the optional for deployment only?

    How does this effect skills such as stealth?

    Is it also a deployment choice or can we continue to choose to use it or not on an order by order basis?
     
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    all leveled skills grant you those below it, unless otherwise stated. You can choose to deploy your camo guy with just mimetism, you can choose to deploy your TO guy in normal camo state. ect ect.

    the recent FAQ covers camo cancellation in addition to the clauses stated in the wiki:
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camouflage_and_Hiding_(CH)

    You can always choose to deploy in a lower state than you have.

    Stealth shouldn't be affected if his level of CH grants it, even if you choose to use a lower level.
     
  3. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    Not talking about states, talking about how NFB interacts with skills mainly and exactly what optional means?

    Optional is a deployment use definition? That prompted the question about stealth.

    Does it have multiple definitions depending on the skill/equipment it is applied to and if that is the case what are all the definitions and how does it work?
     
  4. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    "optional" doesn't only apply to deployment skills or equipment, in fact, many pieces of equipment and skills have the optional trial.
    Optional means just that, you don't have to use the skill or equipment if you don't want to.
    If your Lasiq with climbing plus wants to spend a full order to climb up a building, waiving the use of his special skill, he may.

    Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 10.49.09 AM.png

    NFB just dictates that a single skill/pieces of equipment, with the NFB trait, can be active at one time.

    Do you have an example of exactly what you're confused about?
     
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  5. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    My questions are listed in the post you just quoted including recognizing that optional is applied across many forms within the game which leads to what does optional do and how do we know when we can do it or not and hown

    Back to camo. I'm in a camo state, I want to switch levels to mimetism, can that be done? If so how? If yes then doesn't NFB kick in and remove all effects from the other skill (including the camo state?)
     
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    The Camouflaged State doesn't have the optional flag, you have to meet one of the cancellation criteria to exit the State.

    Camouflage and Hiding Level 2: Camouflage, which is a Skill, is optional, you can choose not to use it.
     
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  7. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 11.08.34 AM.png
    These are the ways you can cancel the camo state.
    Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 11.07.43 AM.png
    The recent FAQ clarified this.

    You may always opt to deploy in a lower level because the skill has the "optional" trait, not the state.
     
  8. fkaos

    fkaos Active Member

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    I’m surprised people are having this much trouble understanding th op’s question.

    He’s asking if he can cancel the camo state by activating mimetism as both camo and mimetism have the NFB trait.

    I think the answer is no as it was answered on the forum for caterans that the camo state is a deployment skill, and after you are in the state you can use mimetism without NFB’ing away your camo.

    In the case of the cateran it means he can surprise shot out of limited camo with mimetism.
     
  9. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Per the recent FAQ update, you cannot choose to cancel your camouflaged state by "activating" CH: Mimetism. This is not one of the listed cancellation clauses of the camo marker state.
     
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  10. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    So NFB does nothing then?
     
  11. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    Good point (on the Cateran)
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You mean besides preventing stacking Mimetism, Camo and To Camo effects?
     
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  13. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    So, clunky bit, I downgrade a TO model to normal camo and deploy. I want to turn on TO (I guess you can do this still?) and I have not dropped out of a Camo state, I must spend an order to drop the camo state via one of the CC then the TO can be upgraded?

    Y'all I wasn't confused by the FAQ, I am still unclear on why NFB cancelling the effects (the effect of deploying using the Camouflage and Hiding rule is the Camo State) doesn't drop the Camo state.
     
  14. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    In the sense that is doesn't kick in when leveled skills are changed up or down in game.
     
  15. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Presumably you could spend a long order to "re-camo" into another state, as this would meet the cancellation clause of the state you were leaving.

    Edit to add explicit example

    1. Croc Man deploys in camo state
    2. Croc Man declares entire order skill to enter TO Camo state
    2.a. Upon declaration this drops the model out of camo, since entire order skills are not on the list of permitted camo marker skills
    2.b. In the resolution phase, the model will be replaced by a TO Camo marker
     
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  16. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I believe you can just spend an entire order to activate the TO camo state, as you are fulfilling the cancelation requirements of the first bullet point. Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 2.44.48 PM.png
     
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  17. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    The only place this "hurts" you is if you were planning on having a model in a marker state declare a move-move to reach base contact with an objective, and downgrading to mimetism along the way in order to exit the marker state for free, enabling you to contest the objective.
     
  18. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    Free is debatable (not in the sense of getting the movement but the oppurunity cost of a 20 something or higher point model not participating in the battle for several turns)
    Avoiding circles now. I relent.
     
  19. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    That is because the skill is not needed to maintain the state, it is needed only to enter the state.

    So if you lose access to the skill you can continue to exist in camo state while you are in camo state.
     
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  20. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Yup, "Not using Camouflage & Hiding Level 2" is not a cancellation clause for the Camouflaged State, so it does not cancel it.
     
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