Yeah, it's been discussed at tedious length in the rules forum (the actual place for it), why bring it up here?
Because ignoring the spread of misinformation and willful stupidity unfortunately won't make it go away. As mentioned I don't actually care if you agree with Enhanced Reaction being a MOD, bonus or whatever. Just preemtively covering bases so I can avoid another tedious attempt of willful ignorance. Enhanced Reaction still has no way to access a claim to access the +1 B from 3 man Fireteam bonus with or without that.... so eh whatever, you can try weaseling out of it for the... eh who is counting, right?... time now.
@Teslarod it works because it isn't a bonus. It sets burst to 2 regardless of what it is (so won't give more with total reaction etc). It can lower burst, in fact, which is why it can't be a bonus.
This isn't a discussion about that, it's a discussion about Rudras, so it would be nice if the discussion on Rudras could continue without all this getting in the way? There is a rules sub-forum and a PM system for a reason, guys. Anyway, Rudras look good and I am excited to see what other loadouts they get. But still, very nice. Definitely a strong addition to ALEPH.
I'm really hoping they GET more loadouts, I feel it's possible they can release with only the one, which would feel like a missed opportunity.
The video that showed the Rudras profile also only showed one profile for Vassily and the Frontovik, both of which have had more profiles sunsequently teased. I think we might see more at Interplanetario.
I like the Rudra quite a bit. Dakini will spoil a lot of players, but there are a lot of things the Rudra can do that Dakini simply can't. The extreme mobility of the Rudra, the capability to walk through a mine and not care, or tank a direct template shot and not care, are all really good capabilities to have. Having something with 2 Wounds and good ARM to help open up the battlefield for all your fragile, squishy REMs and Dogged troopers is a good asset. I see all this theoretical hype about how good various units are for the new ALEPH, but nothing that addresses how you get past an enemy with Minelayer just sitting in a key lane. 80% of the Vedic roster grounds to a halt when confronted with that problem... Except the Rudra, Yadu, Asura, and other units that are facing some flak from the community. Being able to walk into dangerous areas with a good chance of survival is important.
The Rudra also has the advantage of bringing support for its own support. With the proliferation of HD+, AHDs and KHDs in Aleph and OS in particular, a tough, aggressive repeater than can lay mines, go into suppression and hold up a flank very well while also providing extra range to those Hackers is very useful. The Dakini is cheap, fast and effective but very stripped down in comparison. I don't think they're really fulfilling the same roles, I certainly wouldn't expect a Dakini to do much more than absorb a couple of orders, but a Rudra is a real roadblock.
I doubt the Rudras have no option for heavy weapons. Even if thats the case, they are still quite strong with a multi-rile. The real issue is the competition with the Yadu.
I have to agree that solo multi rifle Yadu i worse than rudra. Worse mobility, survivalability, less firepower (supportware). Yadu has only emarat and is not hackable but rudra has repeater which in case of OSS means at least hd+ aro or attack.
So in other words they don't fill the same role :) By the way, since i was thinking of remote heavy lists, we should not forget that remotes can't become Lt. If there are very few "living things" in the army (especially if we don't/can't take a posthuman), we can easily be locked in perpetual loss of lieutenant state. If one day i face an army with like 2 living and the rest being REM, i would totally try to incapacitate those 2 asap, then do the mission.
Nope. I mean, Yadu pros: decent gameplay wise, a bit expensive but useable the profiles seem perfectly Alephy (NWI, template, decent MI stats across the board) NWI + Shock Immunity, YEAH Heavy Rocket Launcher - OS was really weak on ITWs so far, this is always nice, although it is Yadu chassis Neutrals: Veteran L1 : it's an awesome skill on either cheap troopers or big Hackable assault pieces. Yadu are neither. Consequently, meh. Drop Bears : again, nice, but requires to be spending Orders and BS13 MULTI Rifle is a distinctly unimpressive piece E/Marats : these are best again big hackable assault pieces. Not something I have trouble with as Aleph Forward Observer : fairly cheap specialist, but Combi Rifle... AHD : good weapon (Boarding Shotgun), but then no DTW and still expensive (due to AHD inflated costs) Now to cons: they are expensive, both in comparison in-faction and out-of-faction (and no, I'm not comparing them to Proxies) the toolbox profiles are distinctly suboptiomal : they provide defences that either require Orders (Drop Bears), or that leave enemies able to ARO / against hackable targets which we can use our plentiful Hackers against, all in an expensive, shortranged, bad gunfighter (BS13 MULTI Rifle no mods no movement abilities is very meh) gunfighting profiles are a big trap : expensive BS13 with no mods, extremely average movement, nothing special whatsoever still vulnerable to Viral instadeath NCO is a trap; in Aleph, I prefer Lts who can use their own LT Order, and we have two Strategos (three counting Hector). At the moment, I see only a Deva Lt as being useful in combination, and even then it is a meh Overall, I don't think Yadus are particularly bad troopers. But they are definitively not good troopers, have nothing that make me go "oooh, shiny, wanna play". Linkability might help a bit, but even then, I just don't see any of the profiles truly contributing enough for the price tag they bring. Rudras definitively look as they will provide a much better and more interesting unit, better meshing with the rest of the list. And this is with S4 REM disadvantages in mind.
I couldn't disagree more, I think Yadu are immensely good. Drop Bears are incredible, E/Marats are really good, they're durable for cost, no hacking weakness, immune to E/M (very nice these days), flexible profiles, multiple link and specialist options... They're a real winner.
This. Veteran fulfills exactly the same role here, as it would on HI assault troops. It prevents them from getting Isolated. And given that E/M weaponry is increasingly present in the game, and that we've just seen a second unit with Jammer, it's a very good skill on the assault unit, which will venture close to these threats, often clearing our way through them. Right now there's no unit in OSS that can claim the same functionality. Drop Bears and E/Marats are great to have, as it's those weapons that make Yadu a proper toolbox, they can threaten every unit type, help with area denial, set up twin-pronged attack (for example with our infiltrators. Sometimes using that order to drop a mine nearby objective can mean the difference between victory and defeat, while E/Marat will be punishing against HI links (hell, against links in general. E/M Isolates all), and denies enemy the use of "I'll just tank the ARO with my HI/TAG" tactic, same as it works for Ghazi. And BS 13 MRifle is elite level in every other army, save PanO. Even here it's a very good combination. On FO and AHD I agree; they're deliberately limited, so we have to choose between having a specialist or full degree of offensive power. Their cost range from 32 to 41, with most interesting profile costing 35-37. That's not punishingly expensive, given their statline, Skill combination, and armament mix. We're paying for a very durable combat toolbox here. It's able to threaten every unit type, shrug off most AROs (vulnerability to Viral is in line with almost every other unit, and Shock Immunity is valuable enough), and we haven't seen the link options yet. It might end up as a force multiplier for most of our fireteams. NCO is actually very useful; there will be numerous situations when your Lt. won't be in position to make much use of its order, and NCO allows you to be more flexible and cover more bases. In army as expensive as Aleph every bit that helps to squeeze more use out of available order pool is invaluable. Also if you consider unit with BS 13 to be a "bad gunfighter", and MOV 4-4 on MI "extremely average", then I'm just lost for words. Concerning Rudras; they're better in shooting in MRifle range, but also less flexible, hackable, worse at dodging, can't go Prone, and S4 is a pretty big drawback, if the amount of complaining about Andromeda can be any clue.
