How is Spitfire a downgrade? Spitfire and HMG are nearly the same weapons with the same purpose with different range bands. 1DAM difference is mostly negligible. Frenzy imo is bad for anything that's not disposable, and I really don't want that on my expensive HIs (linkteams mitigate that properly). MA3 is 6pts difference in the roll, that's quite a lot. Usually Burst wins the FtF then MODs, then damage (which would only help to win the FtF in the next order by not having to make the roll), MA3 has twice the mods than MA1, and you rarely want the extra 3 DAM from MA2. Gabriel was pretty cool before KHD, now he's outdated. Sad, because it was a lot of good things in one package, unlike most of Pano. Or AHD + KHD, since that's a thing now, or some marker state to survive the first turn when you go second. Or maybe he just needs a DHD/WHD, I think that's what gives you unignorable firewall mods and some hacking attack to defend from hacking attacks. Too bad no one did the math while designing KHD, neither the price nor the programs.
PanO doesn't have Smoke, you need to be able to strike from your DZ (or circumvent that somehow with Infiltration, AD....). A DZ bound Spitfire will always be a second class citizen as you'll need to supplement it with something that allows it to advance. See above, the different Rangebands make them very different. A HMG can fight a Spitfire with a +3 vs a -3 Rangeband, can fight MLs and Snipers in their +3 and doesn't really want to go inside 16". A Spitfire is good at fighting within 0-24 but really doesn't want to get caught past that range. That much is obvious, but it means that a HMG will have a tough time advancing through dense terrain or towards enemies in close proximity. It needs to flank if you want it to advance. A Spitfire can keep engaging opponents after you managed to get out of your DZ. Clearing corner to corner while still being able to outrange Shotguns and Rifle Variants. Spitfires have a slight advantage that they can fight any other SWC weapon in a favourable matchup given the opportunity, Snipers, Rifles, HMGs, MLs. HMGs are noteworthy different as they have to beat Snipers through Burst advantage, RAW BS and VIS MODs. Depending on what you're facing it matters quite a bit. Against ARM0 without cover you get an increase of roughly 6% [70%->75%x0.95] (because Crits are a thing) Against ARM 3 in Cover that extra DAM it is about 11% [40%->45%x0.95] more likely to cause a W per hit Against a Jotum in Cover with ARM 13 it's a 95% boost [5%->10%x0.95] Free Fatality pretty much does the same thing for TAGs and I actually have stats for that. Long story short you'll get about 1.5 extra wounds that matter (and aren't overkill) for the average match. A Spitfire is much more likely to catch targets out of Cover compared to a HMG though. Then again it wants to advance instead of hanging back and that changes everything. When was the last time you heard someone complain about Achilles? The guy would be on his way to 90 points without Frenzy. Same for Joan, Frenzy is great on her. The one and only downside of Frenzy is that you lose cover after you actually killed something and survived through your opponent's turn (where you'll still benefit from Cover). Then you get a free Impetuous Order which you can cancel or use and you'll be able toplay very agressive with your Frenzy troop that most likely already is somewhere in the midfield. Dunno man, in my book Frenzy is great if not borderline OP. Unfortunately his most direct competitior is exactly that, the Linked Frenzy Hospitalers, who undoubtedly make great use of Frenzy. Compared to MA1 it's a 3 Point difference and -1DAM, Against a Fusilier shooting at you DeFe gets an 5.4% higher probability to kill the Fusilier which is an effective increase of 9% CC capability for MA3 over MA1. It's certainly good but is it good enough to buy the whole 17 point package? Agreed. The existence of KHDs is the biggest factor, even before Frenzy. Your 58 point guy being the weakpoint in your link because something a third of his cost can kill him throug a Repeater is a serious problem for him. Non Marker HI Hackers, especially the usual Linked AHDs, have serious trouble validating their existence without the help of Tinbot Bs. Regular HI vs AHDs suffer nowhere near the same risk. KHDs hit harder, are lethal, ignore Fairy Dust/Firewall are cheaper and usually 0SWC. AHDs are also somewhat uncommon these days (with some notable exceptions line the Posthuman MK2). Risking a hit with Carbonite or even Oblivion is a joke when the alternative is Redrum.
I don`t think there is any further point of speculation :((( We post the same ideas all over again and they are either heard(ORC feuerbach) or not(strange helots loadouts) Unless their rules are changed I don`t see any point of taking harris of them. They will be slow, expensive af and useless. Does anybody takes ORC harris in ASA? Anyone?
Actually, yes. People have taken the Orc Haris and won games with it. Its a bit rare because of how looked down upon the Orc is, but it has happen. Its the same with some people taking bolts and making them work. A Bolt haris would allow you to move 2 bolts with drop bears quickly to the middle of the board to mine the place up. You can do the same with E/M grenades.
I'd absolutely run a Bolt Haris if given the option. The primary Bolt issues are taking the core team slot and their cost. Having only three takes care of both those issues and allows you to take advantage of the e/m grenades and drop bears.
Bear with me for a second. Winning with bad stuff doesn't make it less bad. If someone is able to outclass his opponent, is on top of his strategic game or simply has the dice on his side everything can work. At worst you're playing with an army that is effectively not worth 300 points, but maybe 250 effective networth. Beating 300 points well composed troops with 250 is an uphill battle, but far from impossible. One random crit against an Intruder or a mistake by your opponent can flip that difference. If a full Core Link of Bolts would be 15 points cheaper than now, you'd probably have an extra Machinist or Traumadoc somewhere. That extra guy may do absolutely nothing or will win you the game. It's not a question of absolutes. That said I'm really looking forward to Bolts dropping by a lot of points. 2 for every Combi+LSG Profile according to Aragoto. 2 for Dropbears. Maybe another reduction I am not aware of. Maybe even new/altered Profiles, who knows. Other than that I'd recon Bagh Mari, Konstantinos and Rao will also at least get a bit cheaper. With Orcs at least gaining a Feuerbach some extra work being done on them isn't surprising to expect. Feuerbachs are a PanO mass produced weapon, so wouldn't expect that one to be the Varuna exclusive Profile. The ongoing problem of boredom for MO is something I don't have much hope for, but maybe at least the Teutons will get some small addition.
My bets: - Bolt Haris, point drops over all the profiles, Lt. profile with dropbears. Maybe paramedic profle gets dropbears too (this will make her more desirable specialist option than the hacker in certain scenarios). A drop 0.5 SWC on the Spitfire profile or make the Haris 0SWC will make me very, very happy. - ORC varuna profiles updated to other sectorials and vanilla. If croc gets a KHD profile, I expect to see it in vanilla too. - I don't thing they will update spec-ops: they already did it for uprising. - Seraph's auxbot learns to fly - Teutons with eclipse smoke please!! - Order Sergeants linking with non camo, non auxbots Spec Sergeants. - Linkable FKs working as 'glue': can join any knighs fieteam (like it's stated in the lore). Maybe they'll get some kind of CoC/Strategos... - ...Or maybe the Sepulcher is the one who gets it. He needs love. And better weapons (Maybe Templar tech, they took all templar assets on earth after their downfall). - Some profles updated with some proper PanO advanced weaponry: Feuerbach, MULTI Rifles, MULTI Marksmanship, Breaker Combi... But I expect to see them on 'not yet sculpted to N3 standard' profiles.
I don't think Bolts would get a point decrease, and I don't think that would solve much. I suppose we have a point slot around 20 for an MI in NCA, and MOV4-2 on MI supposed to be compensated by fancy tools and skills, so Bolts should get those instead of a few points decrease. I don't see much value in Bioimmunity, our doctor game isn't really top notch, and wounds can just overspill on ARM2 W1, so shock immunity isn't a big win. The BTS6 against shock and viral is circumstantial, but there are more and more shock marksman rifles and SMGs around, so that may change. Though with SMG and MULTI weapons the opponent will just choose AP. Anyone has examples of good MI links that are not good, because they have BS MODS like MSV or CH?
I think it would be important for Bolt Haris to not be tied to a specific profile though. People bring up the ORC Haris and I think an overlooked factor as to why or why not for someone using it is the profile. It's tied specifically to the Boarding Shotgun profile, which isn't bad, but when you're looking at AVA3 tops...you're going to be picking and choosing very carefully. Add to it that the model is fairly old and you get a recipe for why someone might just ignore the profile.
I wouldn't expect this. They kept harping that we weren't going to see an ORC box until Varuna and it would have some "Varuna exclusive profiles". I'm also not expecting a whole lot of swaps to weapons, at least as updates. I could see them in addition to but sadly not just added in/replaced.
Wild Speculation you say? That is my favorite kind of speculation! I would like to see Bolts completely reworked to Posthuman's level of effectiveness. Ok, not really, I would prefer a thoughtful and balanced approach, but it would be fun to see all the people moaning about how terrible the Bolts are, rush out and buy them. I think a Bolt Harris would actually be a good little bump for them. Although watch, we will get a Bolt/Orc core link team just to harvest PanO tears. Never happen, but I would love to see a Military Orders Knightly HI get a engineering profile. You could put it in the Tuetons, to give people a reason to take them. Although story wise I think an engineer would fit best in the Santiagos. A spaceship boarding party could definitely use an engineer to do some emergency 'repairs' or even, actual repairs. I really think the Equestrian order of Knights of the Holy Sepulchre need a bike option. Not that it would make sense, but equestrian is right in there name. That said, a Holy Holo Projector Bike HI? I would buy that.
ORC/Bolt Core could actually work quite well, depending on actual weapon/skill/equipment composition.
Mine launcher on Bolts would be a possibility. That equipment concept has been around for a few years now, and was originally attached to Bolts. Now that its rules have been finalized, it could easily be given back to Bolts (maybe an SWC cost attached, representing how much better it gets on a linkable option?) My other big asks would be for Rao and Singh.
The idea's been upped to be something more along the lines of a vehicle mounted dispersal unit... Bolt Engineer with an Auxbot that has Mine Dispenser though, I'm so flipping down with that.
Sounds fair to me, @Stiopa . I'd use it too... Would transform NCA's game entirely, in a very positive way.
Maybe--but given that all the implied units for Mine Dispensers in the fluffy tidbit are vehicles or TAGs, I think it's better for us to go the Engineer and Auxbot route. We get to have the Engineer we've long sought after, we get the Mine Dispensers, and we get an Auxbot too! Give the model a SMG and give us a box of 4 and bam, I'll be happy. Auxbot Murphy Sierra: Baggage Mine Dispenser
