Why should I take Seraph over Bulleteer?

Unless you're allowed to premesure and draw all sorts of lines and angles vertically, or that you're really abusing the "play by intend", finding the right height to do the jump is really tricky if you're anything other than a skilled architect or something.

EDIT:
Just did a rapid search on the wiki, i believe the whole "you're on the front but because you shoot at a rear point of the ennemy means he can't see you" is invalid. My emphasis:

For a troop to be able to draw LoF to its target, it must meet these conditions:

• The target must be within the troop's front 180˚ arc.
• The troop must be able to see, at least, a part of the volume of its target with the size of the target's head, or a minimum size of approximately 3x3mm (the size of the black squares on the Silhouette Templates).
• LoF can be drawn from any point in the troop's volume to any point in the target's volume.
• LoF can be obstructed by figures—friendly or not—and pieces of scenery.

 

Hm, I've actually never played it with the whole 'shoot them in the back from the front' ruling, but even without it I've found a decent number of situations where you can shoot someone's back arc from across the board in ways they really weren't expecting when you jump up in the air.

 

Let's not forget that jumping is inherently dangerous, even if you get some funky options like this. If there is nothing else in ARO then it may mean you area already losing or need to defend better.

 

Symbiomates

 

My favorite Seraph tactic is to Rambo hard with it turn 1 wrecking half of my opponent’s army and then either finishing the job turn 2 or I get to roll out with a hosp/magister link. I honestly just use the bot until I the advantage to jump is there and then reconnect with him if I can before the end of the turn or just abandon it and be on my merry way. As useful as the auxbot can be, I just don’t let him slow me down.

 

Why would they contradict ? The whole point was that juperjump would allow to see the rear half of the target's volume, without the target being able to draw a line of sight from his front half. BUT, as i pointed, drawing lof from the front half is not a requirement. The line of fire may be drawn from any point of the target's volume as long as the angle is in the 180° front arc (note that when speaking about angles, i wrote front arc, and not front volume). So unless there is something else or i really misunderstood the rules, i don't see how it is even possible to do that. And you have to say it's a little cheesy to say the least.

EDIT:
I would add that thing:
Mutual Awareness
In Infinity, Line of Fire always assumes reciprocity, following the rule of thumb "if I can see you, you can see me". This means that as long as any troop can draw LoF to its target, the target can draw LoF to its attacker as well (assuming, of course, that the attacker is within the target's front 180˚ arc).

EDIT bis:
I re-read all the line of fire rules and i must admit it's a bit confusing and contradictory. So i'm not sure at all.

 

I think you just play too much against Darkness. Jammers are not that much of a problem against anybody else than Haqq, HB and now Tunguska. And once your opponent has a MSV (which neither of them have) or just a Flamethrower on the table the Bulleteer turns into a sitting duck.

And I don't know if it was already discussed on page 2, but if you play it correctly the Seraph has basically MA4 if he gets his bot into CC as well and you can choose to either immobilize freely (and take a hit) or have B2 with his EXP CCW.

I will admit that the Bulleteer is incredibly strong for its points and the Seraph is more of an acquired taste, but comparing them under the assumption that they fill the same role is just wrong IMHO.

 

A Seraph needs Support to funktion while the Bulleteer himself is more of a support piece.

Nothing kills quite as much stuff as a Seraph, dropping a S7 6-4 Superjump troop as your reserve piece after your opponent put his cheerleaders and obvious Lt on rooftops in his DZ is a gamechanger.
As others mentioned he is a real keeper against Camo. Double Discorer, Double Intuitive Attack, DTW+BS Attack forcing Dodge AROs.

Superjump with a BS15 DAM15 Spitfire also lets you ignore a lot of Cover. A Bulleteer doesn't roll 4 dice on 18s even with Marksmanship L2 buff.

Nothing feels quite like removing 11 models and 3 Markers in a turn. Keeping the Auxbot alive is quite important for damage potential though.

 

Well truth be told, Seraph might be best CC TAG (those without HFT) killer in CC. You "just" jump opponents TAG with both of Auxbot and Seraph and ask enemy a question:

- you want to be immobilized now and me taking your possible hit/shoot
- or you want to have a unnoposed B2 CC20 EXP PH 16 hit to face

 

Unfortunately, it is a requirement.
It's clarified in the FAQ.

 

Yup indeed, through i wouldnt say it "clarified", i think the writing is really poor even in the FAQ - when a rule is "from any point of the volume" but is in fact "from any point of the front half of the volume", there is a great problem, that could be solved by just using the correct terms. This is nothing but a quirk that has nothing to do in a rule system in my opinion and would just bring confusion and abuses. It's not like the rules where simples to begin with nor that superjump would really need that to be powerful.

 

IIRC the questions that prompted the ruling all had to do with S4 REMs and bikes, where it's much easier geometrically getting a "rear shot" from in front of the target without the front arc being able to draw LOF. I also seem to recall it was first ruled one way, then changed, which does make me think they went with a gut "this doesn't seem right" ruling to start with, but found the subsequent interactions not to be satisfactory.

 

LOF used to be drawn from any point on your Volume to anypoint in front of the 180 line on your volume.

While it had soem rare janky instances where you could be shot in the front half of your sillie from behind, no the whole it was a much more intuitive way of playing.

 

I still wholeheartedly support a return to this way of playing.

It's pretty disappointing actually, hearing the very best arguments in defense of the Seraph being brought here.

There aren't that many, and they aren't that good.

 

theres a lot more, the seraph is insanely good. This conversation just starts with the premise that a TAG and a REM have the same roles on the table when they absolutely dont.

Its apples and oranges

 

It is?

I'd love to hear more of this case.

Because currently it looks like the PanOceania TAG with the weakest case for bringing it to the table.

 

for you maybe

personally I see and get a lot of benefit in a BS15 DAM15 B4 weapon that you cant effectively hide from and drags a HFT around with it.

Is the 8-24 range bands a limitation? sure, youve got 225 pts in the list to cover that.
Just like if you take one of the other TAGs you then need to invest points into dealing with units in hard to reach places like prone on a roof

No one piece does it all on its own

 

I'm really glad to hear you are getting good use out of it.

I'd love to hear a little more detail about how.

 

Easy, Pano has several good HMG users to provide you the long range the Seraph lacks. The maneuverability and toughness (arm 7 is still really high) of the Seraph is amazing. Heres something I just came up with real quick, nothing tailored for a missions but it gives you a starting point. I certainly wouldn't stay this lists lacks long range firepower just because it includes a Seraph. Of interesting note, the Seraph is one of the rare cases where i think its better to stick with generic Pano rather than use its sectorial.

PanOceania
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10
SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68)
NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27)
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

6 SWC | 300 Points

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