1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Rudras : reconsideration

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Nemo No Name, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    Almost certainly, but we haven't seen the new profiles. We're just going by the weapons listed on the GenCon box which calls her an Asura hacker with Multirifle.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Yep, it's a "template Vs..." fight. The Rudra might even have an advantage there, since a) it's a HI, not a paper-thin warband, and b) you eat 3 combi shots or I place a mine for the future... so if you dodge I can still screw you, while the Hollow Men have to shoot.
    Against troops you have no chance to really hit, the Rudra can drop a mine for future orders, while the Hollow Men can choose template or dodge.

    All in all, frankly I think the Mine Dispenser in a troop that moves a lot can be really interesting, since for example you can break a Ryuken SMG from its suppressive fire (in cover) without eating ARO (launch the mine from a corner or something, then show up with another unit... -12 does little when you eat a mine to the face if you shoot). The only problem is that it has limited uses, so unless we can link a baggage bot...
     
    jherazob and Abrilete like this.
  3. quaade

    quaade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    60
    You can close of avenues of approach with a mine.

    There's nothing that says a mine can only be used offensively.

    A Hollow, or a Fireteam of Hollows, is a hammer. You point them towards the enemy and watch the carnage.

    As such their strategic value is high. How to use them is obvious. However improvising with them is near impossible. So their tactical value is low.

    A Rudras on the other hand has a low strategic value as its use is less obvious.

    Using it as a Sup. Fire tool? There are cheaper options.

    Using it as a Repeater? The alternative is cheaper, faster and have a smaller S.

    The Rudras on the other can be used to improvise on the fly.

    Need Sup. Fire? It has a decent gun.

    Has an opportunity showed up to use a Repeater? It got one of those as well.

    Is the enemy encircling and you want to close their approach? There's a Mine Dispenser on that chassis as well.

    A tactical multitool for the price of 39 points? That's a steal in this game and for Aleph in particular.

    Units have a strategic value and a tactical value.

    Comparing a tactical unit to a strategic is like comparing a monley's swim speed to a fish's.

    Sendt fra min VTR-L29 med Tapatalk
     
    Deltervees, DukeofEarl, Mikes and 3 others like this.
  4. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    I don't think people would enjoy the "mines everywhere" tactic much!
     
    jherazob and xagroth like this.
  5. Seneca

    Seneca Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    19
    Actually that would be kind of hilarious. Just mine the entire midfield.
    Not really effective, true. Costs too many orders and the enemy can just trigger multiples
    with some cheap unit, helper bot or bring a minesweeper and turn them against you.
    But fun too watch
     
    jherazob, xagroth and loricus like this.
  6. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    I like the mine dispenser for the one simple reason... speculative fire...

    It might be a little hard to pull off (9s to hit) but dropping one in front of a puppeteer would be a great way to threaten it
     
    jherazob and xagroth like this.
  7. quaade

    quaade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    60
    A Mine Dispenser has the Targetless trait. So getting a mine into optimal range is BS 15.

    Sendt fra min VTR-L29 med Tapatalk
     
    jherazob and xagroth like this.
  8. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Odds of a puppeteer not being in a building are small though ;) however sure... if someone wants to leave It in the open then drop the mine on 15s and then engage the puppets
     
  9. SwordSaint8

    SwordSaint8 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    29
    Unless you don't have LoF, then it's a 9.
    Edit: Ninja'd ; )
     
    tdc likes this.
  10. quaade

    quaade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    60
    I know the strarig draw of killing the puppeteer. No one seems to realise the tactical advantage of killing the.

    1: Without the bot, the puppeteer is just an expensive Order monkey.

    2: The puppeteer is probably in a place where the opponent to use a lot of Orders to get them back into the fight.

    3: Killing the bot removes a lot of preasure.

    4: The unit still costs around 30 points. By killing the bot you remove most of the unit offensive power. However you only remove about 14 points towards their Retreat.

    5: By using chances to kill the puppeteer, you using a valuable ressorce, Orders, on potentially nothing.

    Sendt fra min VTR-L29 med Tapatalk
     
  11. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    The puppeteer is 12 points, hardly expensive..

    The puppeteer is 1 would and 1 armour... and more importantly can't aro. The bots are 2 wounds and can aro with 2! Burst
     
    xagroth likes this.
  12. quaade

    quaade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    60
    If the opponent uses an Order to do so, which directly translates into one less Order for another.

    I dislike this tendency to evaluate other units in their best case condition in a vacuum.

    Infinity is a tactical game, people want to subconsciously make it strategic as they're used to that.

    Murphy's first law of combat: no plan ever survives first contact the enemy.

    Long term analasis is strategic and thus prone to extreme failure.

    Sendt fra min VTR-L29 med Tapatalk
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  13. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    I'm not sure i understand you?
     
  14. RecklessPrudence

    RecklessPrudence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    178
    So I've been rewatching GitS:SAC while assembling the majority of my Aleph, that never got done after I got discouraged in regards to assembling after working on frakking Dakini 1.0s and taking one look at the Probot bags'o'parts and going nope. (I've been using what I had assembled as proxies and a lot of empty bases/non-Infinity models for a while now in friendly games as I learn). In the most recent episode, a big urban chase sequence involving Tachikomas occurred, leading me to realise something: we wuz robbed! Tachikomas have TO Camo and Superjump and a Heavy Grenade Launcher (at least) and a Baggage variant all in addition to their Multi Rifle, Repeater, and Climbing Plus! To say nothing of the precision they're capable of with that Multi Rifle, or what their ARM stat must be! You could probably make an argument that they don't have a Mind Dispenser, but all the aforementioned still doesn't take into account their cable launchers that could probably function as a different-mechanism ADHL as well as the possibility of being loaded with Monofilament for ranged attacks. And their WIP isn't at all bad either, considering some of the stuff they pull later in the series! Let alone what their PH must be, to dodge the things they do even with the REM -3! Rudras come out looking very poor in comparison.

    So to reiterate: we wuz robbed! (the fact that such a monster profile would be significantly more expensive than even an Asura, perhaps even reaching or exceeding Marut levels, and no-one would ever take it except in the most focused of lists, is beside the point!)
     
  15. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    445
    CB did release a major Kusanagi profile years ago, and what came out was basically a cross between Asura, Swiss Guard, Ninja and Interventor. So yeah the GitS units are all way to powerful to balance the for infinity.
     
  16. RecklessPrudence

    RecklessPrudence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    178
    You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you? Also, was it N3 era, or earlier?
     
  17. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Earlier, N2... maybe even N1
     
  18. quaade

    quaade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    60
    It's opportunity. If your opponeny buffs the bot with an Upgrade a Full Order is used. That is one Order less to directly hammer you with.

    And since a G: Marionette is unable to recieve Supportware., it having B2 in ARO is impossible.

    Sendt fra min VTR-L29 med Tapatalk
     
    #58 quaade, Jul 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  19. Scooper396

    Scooper396 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    38
    Not really, the puppets count as a link, so if there are 3 puppets, they have B2 in ARO.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  20. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    The puppets form a pseudo link team. With three of them that's +1 burst. I'd rather try and threaten the puppeteer with a mine before taking on the puppets since if any puppet activates the puppeteer gets a mine to the face.

    It's a useful additional strategy that comes with mine dispenser. As you say, plans fall apart when faced with real life, so it would not be the only method of dealing with them. Just nice to have an indirect option.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation