Hi All. With all the talk of the upcoming Ariadna / Aleph battle box, I thought it would be as good a time as any to start collecting a second faction. Besides the some lore and fluff, I know very little about Aleph. I'm familiar with the Steel Phalynx, but otherwise know nothing about the troops. Any advice or recommendations for someone starting to collect Aleph? Thanks.
Welcome to the elite club ;) First decision to make would be whether you want to go for Phalanx, OSS, or both. With the box incoming I'd assume it'll be vanilla/OSS? Aleph is elite - our units have very good stats combined with useful skills, and most troopers have access to NWI and secondary weapons. This means troops get expensive quickly, and our armies are almost always outnumbered. Additionally basic troops for OSS are Dakinis - fast S2 Remotes with Mimetism - which means that we pretty much don't leave home without a hacker. All this is partially solved by access to Netrods - a 4 pts beacons that provide a Regular Order. Large part of our lists will be consisting of drones, which means we don't like enemy hackers, and number of 1W troops with NWI means we don't like enemy shock weapons either. Right now good starting purchases would be: 1) New starter (when it arrives) 2) Support Pack - it gives you Sophotect (Doctor/Engineer with WIP 15, 6-4 MOV and NWI), two Yudbots and three Netrods. This is mandatory. 3) Deva box + Deva Spitfire - Devas are LI with NWI; they're a bit expensive, but have access to Sensor, Synchronized bots with Heavy Flamethrowers, and Spitfire is also equipped with MSV2, making it very good and cost-effective assault unit. 4) Rebot box (better yet two) - Rebots are standard remotes, and have multitude of uses. 5) Garuda (BS and/or Spitfire, these two are resculpted for now) - basically Dakinis with Combat Jump. They're very good if you need an AD unit. 6) Nagas and/or Dasyus - our infiltrators. Dasyus are more elite, with TO Camo, NWI and Nanopulsers. Nagas have only Dogged and standard Camo, but gain access to Monomines or Minelayer. Both have options for snipers, Assault and Killer hackers. Start with the one you prefer, you'll use both in the end anyway. Posthumans are a special case. They're extremely good unit. Basically you choose either two or three from between five available units, which are then treated as a single model; take one space in army list, provide only one order, only one of them can act/gets a normal ARO at the same time, etc. Body ("Proxy") choices range from barebone Doctor, Engineer or hacker, through TO Camo sniper or hacker, Fast MI with Mk12 or double SMGs, to two Heavy Infantry choices; one is faster and has a Spitfire, second is more resilient and gets HMG or HRL. Thing is, they're massively discounted (for example TO Camo Assault Hacker infiltrator with NWI, BS 13, and WIP 15 costs 21 pts) and to get rid of their single order enemy has to kill all the Proxies and then all the Netrods. They're the most OP unit in the game. It's best to learn to play without them first, not to get used to having a crutch.
This post of Stiopa should be sticked at the beginning of Aleph forum! Enviado desde mi SM-J330FN mediante Tapatalk
Hmmmm... Another faithful Ariadnan falling for the dark side. Been there, done that. You will enjoy it! You say you are familiar with Greeks, so I will waste little time on them. Just one thing I will add: Achilleus (and the other heavy hitters like Patroclus or Eudoros) work very, very differently in Vanilla than they do in SP. Achilleus is a beast in SP but in Vanilla he shines even more. (Yup, it's possible!) Running Achilleus to his fullest potential is number one reason to run Vanilla Aleph. Close secound is Marut. Huge war robot in high heels with a huge gun operated by a girly is reason enough to take her. Aaaaaand she has MSV2! MSV2 TAG with MULTI HMG!!! Apart from these two guys or girls or robots or whatever, there is nothing elite in Aleph. They are not bad in gunfight but do not expect equivalents of the dreaded HMG Spetsnaz. (Not even colse, dude, not even close!) The difference is good stats in Aleph compared to the dirty little tricks you can find in Ariadna a-plenty. Not bad but not elite. Regarding order count you can fairly easily go up to 15 order lists (Netrods), but putting together a 20 order list with decent hitting power is pretty much impossible. Things you will find interesting: First and most Posthumans. Oh, boi, these pesky little dudes rocks! They are not nearly as OP like the Irmandinhos, but they are the number three reason to play Vanilla Aleph over SP. They are dirt cheap and as long as you have a Netrod on the table their order is not lost. As a result they are ideal ARO pieces and an essential part of a single combat group list. Buying the first box is mandatory, the secound box is heavily recommended! Play them a couple of times and you will be quick to love them! Scylla is rather wasted in SP but rocks in Vanilla. Same with Drakios. In vanilla you get access to Devas and Dakinis. The first group provides some interesting Lt options, the secound is cheap and fast specialist (the medic) or a buffable HMG (you have a lot of hackers in Aleph, Danavas are the most recommended). Nagas are clearly inferior to our great infiltrating camo troopers (Chasseurs, Foxtrots and SAS) but in Aleph that's all you can get, deal with it! Dasyus are considered overpriced but TO camo is not to sniff at. Ever been hit by one of them? #metoo Then there are wobots. Zayin, Samekh, Probots... The usual stuff most factions (excluding Ariadna) gets. You can buff them with hackers, so they are not bad. Just nothing unusual there, really. And last but not least you have access to the Dreaded One. The one, whose name should only be whispered when the stars are right and the storm is gone. Asuras. Yup, they singlehandedly finish off a whole Ariadna army. But that is OUR weakness. Generally Asuras are just too expensive for what they do. Not against Ariadna but against everybody else. Say with me, loud and clear: the Asura is not a good trooper. Yes, I know, it's hard to believe after one of them enters SF mode with her Spitfire in the midfield and kills half your army, but she is NOT a good trooper. Don't buy her! Just don't! I hope, this helps. Welcome to the dark side!
The only thing where I disagree with you is in Scylla as a waste in SP... Her power isn't the hacking abilities, that of course, aren't too crucial for SP but the chance to put 2 BBQ boys to cover the advance of the enemy over your expensive myrm link. One troop that all of you are forgetting but that I find essential in vanilla is the humble thorakites. Yes, someone may argue that dakini are superior, fasters, more difficult to be hit, etc but the thorakitai are excellent covering the flanks with SMG and chain rifle and with Arm 3 they can stop a bullet with the chest while shooting DTW. I'm walking the opposite way... With Aleph starting vanilla Ariadna, althought I have full Usariadna sectorial. Enviado desde mi SM-J330FN mediante Tapatalk
There's nothing inferior about them ;) It has good stats, and Dogged gives it good utility as a speed bump without jacking up the price to Dasyu levels. Minelayer with Boarding Shotgun as pretty awesome, as are Monomines. I use Nagas a lot in my Acontecimento and I swear by them. Asuras are expensive as hell, the postergirls for Aleph eliteness, but we do get quality for that price. And it's possible she'll get a lifting once OSS hits. There's also this fine trick for fighting massed camo armies of Ariadna and Shasvastii: Coordinated Remotes. One Daleth (Sensor/FO bot) with two Lamedhs (Repeater, Sniffer). First Coordinated Order - Move-Move. Second Coordinated Order - Move-Deploy Sniffer. Third order - Daleth uses Sensor to Discover all Camo/TO Camo units in its ZoC, as well as in ZoC of deployed Sniffer - on 19 or less. Bonus points for creating a large "no re-camo" zone. It's insanely order-effective and very satysfying.
Regarding Scylla I am glad and fascinated to learn someone has a wastly different oppinion on them. I believe that must be at least partly the result of different playstyles. I prefer sending the heavy hitter upfield and kill the biggest, strongest, meanest and generally the best troopers of the enemy first. I deal with order monkeys and squishy specialists in the reacting phase. I feel orders spent on sending Scylla upfields (1 - marker 2 - MOV-MOV 3 - MOV-MOV 4 MOV-MOV and then I need orders to organise the barbacue party) are orders not spent killing my opponent's army (1 - MOV-smoke 2 - MOV-shoot 3 - MOV-shoot 4 - MOV-shoot). Scylla is an order sink in an army I already have several (at least 4 - I prefer bringing a relatively high amount of relatively cheap 3-man fireteams!). I omitted Thorakitai because the OP mentioned he is familiar with SP. For the record: I love them! Regarding the Nagas I am not saying they are bad, I am only saying they are not as good as the Ariadna lot - which is arguably THE best in the whole game! The minelayer Naga is a very good example. He is well worth his points and I always take two in Vanilla Aleph, but I would take a Chasseur in place of him any time - and the Chasseur is cheaper. The trick with coordinated remotes is very effective, I can verify this! :-( Several armies can do something similar. I believe the OP is well aware of this trick, but kudos to you to mentioning it! Important disclaimer: When I started playing NCA I was fascinated by the prospect of fielding Aquila Guard. A couple veteran PanO players convinced me to proxy and try him out before buying. My purse will always be indebted to those guys! PS Maybe this will be a little far-fetched from OP, but could you pedrogzc summarise shortly your impression of Ariadna after going the other way around? Curiosity just kills me...
I did the same move a year ago because I wanted to experience the techno tricks I was denied with Ariadna. As a general advice, I would say you should go to the official store and orders Aleph reference by age to see which are the older one. Buy only these if you truly like their sculpt. Regarding the adviced minis (for vanilla) : - both proxy box because proxy are one of the best toolbox unit of the game - the support box to have netrod and yudbot - Achilles, enough said - the rebot box. Lamedh are good cheap order and zayin are very good defense and secondary offense units (with hacking support) - danava if you want to play REM heavy - the new starter as soon as he is available - some naga because naga FO and KHD are very good objectives maker. Dasyus are very good too. I prefer nagas as they are cheaper but one of my regular opponent play them with great result so : both are great - one myrmidon officier because offensive lieutenant is a must with aleph - Machaon because he is a very good backline lieutenant - finally, I you are frustrated by the lack of big enormous killing monster in Ariadna, you shall buy the Marut (and a myrmidon to smoke him, either the spitfire one as a chain rifle proxy or the myrmidon box) As a note, scylla and drakios are very interesting tools. While I don't advice them for your first wave of mini, I will strongly adviced them for the secondary wave. Both brings very original tools and both, well used and in the good situation, can make a game on their own
It would be a bit sad to use Drakios as a second wave when his main attribute, Albedo, is only active on first turn. Plus, contrary to Scylla, he is a very good rambo with his red fury. I found Scylla to be very good not as an assault unit, but as a defensive unit. Her big repeater network, combined to heavy flamethrower (possibly B2), combined to cybermask, can be very tricky for an opponent to go through.
I meant second wave of buy, not second wave ingame. Both are very good but they are not the tools I would advice before playing a few games with Aleph
What have you've been drinking man... Asura easily gets shot off the board with some of classic Ariadna heavy hitters like AP HMG on Vet Kazak or Marksmanship L2 on Spetznaz. And if she goes suppressive fire, use any of your million camo markers to lay mines, flamethrower or run in with Antipode / Dog Warrior. While I agree Nagas are awesome, compared to Ariadna camo infiltrators they are utterly inferior. Cheapness, availability, SSL1+LFT or Marksmanship L1 simply cannot be matched by Nagas. Yeaaaah... If you can do this without enemy AROing, I think your enemy has already surrendered so much of the board to you that you don't have much to worry about.
Myrmidon threw a smoke 'nade, Asura walked into the smoke and then run amok killing half my army (including one of my Spetsnaz - autodiscover and B4 Spitfire) and then entered SF. She was in the middle of the table so there was no hope outranging her. (I honestly do not remember what happened to my other Spetsnaz. It's not a memory I enjoy recalling.) Lacking MSV2 I had precisly no way smoking her out of the smoke. I never drinc alcoholic beverages during playing. I am that bad a player even when I'm as sober as a judge. :-)
Yeah, fair enough, but to me this sounds like you made some mistakes. For one, don't leave active turn pieces like Spetznaz HMG out to be discovered by Aleph from Smoke. Aleph, especially if you field a 70 pts Asura, has a very limited number of Orders available. If they have to hoof it across half a table and risk a bunch of mines or Chasseurs (or maybe it's just Ambush Camo marker?!) they won't get much if anything done. And then you counterattack. Don't get me wrong, yes, Asura has the potential to do a lot of damage. But only if you leave pieces out to be damaged; it's easy for Ariadna to layer up defences and create huge order spam problems. For example, if you don't put all your infiltrating camo markers on the centre line but layer it with careful short LoF lines, it's very hard to efficiently do the Sniffer+Sensor procedure Stiopa described. At least, do it in a way that'll discover more than one or two camo markers at a time (and even then, hurray, you discovered a mine! Or a Chasseur! If placed carefully prone, they will not be able to be engaged without crossing into other AROs or simply within range of their detonation. I don't actually play Ariadna but Aleph, and I've had a lot of experience dealing with couple of amazing Ariadna players.
Asura problem is not that she is inefficient, it is that she is pricy for what she does. Ultimatedly, what happened here could probably have been done with a deva spitfire. Yes he's only BS12, yes he discovers on 15- instead of auto, but he's half the price - for the price of an asura, you can even field a deva spitfire, a deva sensor and a lamedh (sniffer bot), and autodetect (WIP 15 +6 from sensor) a big amount of camo token in one order, then do move/shot with the deva.
Long story short: Asura should not be on the top of the OP's shopping list. Thank you all for the contribution, it is well appreciated!
If you're wanting a shopping list, to be honest given what's being teased... I would stick to just getting the new stuff... Spitfire Garuda Boarding Shotgun Garuda Proxy Mk4 and Mk5 box Danavas & Karakata High Functionary etc.
Thank you all for all of the information. For a CHA collector, its a lot of fancy, high tech, information that I'll probably take some time to fully get to grips with. While I wait for the new Battlebox (once I see what is inside, it'll likely sway me towards the vanilla or the new sectorial, fingers crossed). In the meantime, I ended up picking up a v1. Achilles. It was cheap, the sculpt looked cool, and I've heard he's a beast. His 75 point cost confirmed that. I know its an older sculpt, but so be it. I'll do my best to quote reply where I have additional comments and questions. Thanks again.
