So a pilot is btb with its tag and is currently the reactive player. An active model moves to see the pilot (who sees him back) as his first short skill. The pilot declares dodge to mount the tag. The active model then declares shoot on the pilot. What happens? Is this legal at all? If so, does the pilot use his ph, or the tag's ph as the tag is the profile to be used for that entire order?
Gunmage - ARO Dodge allows you to perform a Move. kinginyellow - I strongly advise only allowing Mount/Dismount as part of a Move as the first Short Skill of an Order. The rules simply break down otherwise.
This was the part I was curious upon. I wasnt sure if this hit the same part as dismount as second short skill did. Thanks.
Allowing mount-dodge would be akin to allowing Mechanical Transmutation to occur on dodge, wouldn't it (which is something definitely not allowed in the rules)?
I see no reason or rules technical issues with using Mechanical Transmutation on a reactive turn Dodge. With the Su-Jian you must keep in mind which profile has Kinematica and that you only get to use it if you are in travel form after movement. Unlike with mount, you aren't directed to use the new profile for the entire order, only for the entire short movement skill (and onwards). Mechanical Transmutation models are also sanity checked in this regard, they have the same ARM and share wounds between profiles. (Also, wasn't there more than one? I seem to recall CA having one)
This Special Skill can only used when its user declares the Move Short Movement Skill. I think this phrasing means you can't declare it in ARO, as you can only declare a short skill in the active turn. IIRC it's the only Mechanical Transmutation model, but the Fractaa has regular Transmutation, if that's what you're thinking of.
"In Reactive Turn only, a successful Dodge allows the user to Move—or use another Short Movement Skill that doesn't require a Roll—up to 2 inches." http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Dodge By performing dodge you perform the move skill. We could argue that transformation does not work because you do not declare move even if you perform it... (same with mount/dismount)
Yes, but MechTrans uses the same logic and wording as Prone does. Both require declaration of the Move short skill. @meikyoushisui Yes, it's probably the Fraacta. Seems regular Transmutation isn't part of the Special Ability filter list -.-;;
Well shoot, Dodging from Combat Form 4 inches onto the top of a building sounds pretty awesome to me. At some point maybe I'll head back over to YJ for Su Jian and Daofei
First, we're talking Mechanical Transmutation and I was misremembering CA having one. Then I had it pointed out that there's a Transmutation model in CA I might be confusing it with. When I go to check that out I notice that you can't filter Transmutation in CA. So - Transmutation is bugged in ARMY for CA.
Am I missing something obvious here? Doesn't the dodge (and by extension, the Move you use to mount) does not even occur unless you win the face to face against the BS attack. Since you're attempting the ARO with the pilot (because the mount hasn't occurred yet), you use the pilot's PH. So it's: Option 1: The BS attack wins, the dodge fails, and the pilot gets shot Option 2: The dodge succeeds, the pilots mounts the TAG and can move up to 2 inches. Option 3: Neither succeeds and the pilot stands there.
There are some basic problems in the rules that make it not so easy. "By declaring Move, a trooper may Mount or Dismount a Motorcycle, TAG, Vehicle, etc. at the start of his Movement at no cost, the new troop profile will be applied during the whole sequence of the Order." http://infinitythewiki.com/en/index.php?title=General_Movement_Rules&redirect=no Just to mention one thing we got Schrödingers dodge here. Since you apply the new profile for all of the order you use the TAGs PH. But you can only use it if you win the roll. Because if you didn't you wouldn't have mounted. But you rolled already... The rules actually do not cover how this works.
I understand the whole sequence of the order citation, but an ARO is explicitly different from an Order. That section of wording shouldn't apply to a Move via an ARO.
Why shouldn't it apply to the entire sequence of an order? It is just the enemies sequence of an order right now. "Order Expenditure Sequence Each time the Active Player decides to use an Order (of whatever type) to activate a trooper, follow these steps: Activation: The Active Player declares which trooper will activate. Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper. Declaration of the First Skill: The Active Player declares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement. Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player checks which of her troopers can react against the activated trooper, and declares AROs for each of them. If a trooper can declare an ARO but fails to do so, the chance is lost. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement. Declaration of the Second Skill: The Active Player declares the second Short Skill of the Order, if applicable. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement. Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player can check whether new AROs are available, and declare those. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement. Resolution: Players take measurements, determine MODs, and make Rolls. Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Orders or AROs, and make ARM/BTS Rolls. Conclusion: If necessary, players make Guts Rolls and apply their effects." http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence The order expenditure sequence is clearly defined and includes AROs. (Which funnily also named orders: Automatic Reaction Order) That one line in the rules leads to alot of fun stuff. Also outside of AROs. Like dodging a hacking attack with dismount. https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/szalamandra-dismount-question.12861/
From ARO: ALL AT ONCE In Infinity, Orders and AROs are simultaneous regardless of the Skills declared. They are defined as two distinct entities here that occur in an intertwined way, but an ARO is not an Order or even part of one. All that the Order Expenditure Sequence entry does is lay out the order of operations of the two.
"By declaring Move, a trooper may Mount or Dismount a Motorcycle, TAG, Vehicle, etc. at the start of his Movement at no cost, the new troop profile will be applied during the whole sequence of the Order." The movement rules especially talks about the sequence of an order. That's a defined thing the sequence of an order. Orders and AROs are separate things but the sequence of an order is defined.
