I think they forgot something when writing Cybermines rules. We know that Mines trigger on camo, and that cybermines behave like mines except only triggering on hackable figures/markers, or Hackable Characteristic figures/markers. However there is nothing that makes hackable or Hackable status of a marker open information. Even if we assume that Cybermines behave as Hacking Devices for this purpose: Hacking Device: They automatically identify whether a figure—but not a Marker—inside the Hacker's Hacking Area is targetable by a specific Hacking Program. I suppose it was perhaps intended that Cybermines would behave like Hacking Devices vs. HoloEchoes? Holo2: However, in Holoecho state the Hackable Characteristic is considered Open Information when the trooper is inside the Hacking Area of an enemy. So as written the only time cybermines trigger on markers is if they are holoechoes, maybe, if cybermines count as hacking devices for that purpose (but nowhere is it stated that they act as a hacking device for that purpose), and perhaps on a camo marker that has already previously revealed and re-camoed, since you now know that it is a hackable marker.
And...? If a Cybermine is currently on the table as a camo marker, so I don't know what it is, and I walk a camo marker past that camo marker, which my opponent doesn't know what it is...? Do we have retroactive triggering when I reveal my hackable camo marker? For this rule to make sense with triggering on markers, the marker's hackable status would need to become public information when it enters the trigger area, similar to how Holoprojector 2 is written.
As I mentioned in the original post, it seems like that's how it should work, however nowhere does it say that. Hence the "I think we're missing some rules text on this new rule."
Private information becoming Public because of extrapolation from an implied statement? Do you really not see my point at all?
I'm saying that, as a weapon and not a player, the Cybermine doesn't care about what's private and what's open information.
The player has to declare that it triggers. This is not something I thought would need to be argued about.
His point his "how the hell will players know that the mine must trigger, unless they reveal the camo shell game?" Essentially, if a camo marker walks by a "tunguskan" camo marker, how do the players know how to ask, and which reveals his hand first? Does the mine asks "are you hackable" to all camo markers that activate in its detonation zone, thus giving away it is a cybermine? Or does the player that activates a camo reveal that his camo is a hackable troop everytime he gets into a "detonation zone" of any enemy camo? In short, the question is not about the rules of the device, but how to resolve its presence on the table.
Yes, in much the same way that with a normal Mine you have to say 'if that trooper turns out to be in range, this camo marker will detonate'.
Hackable is a charasteristic that is not public, UNLESS you are on the Hacking Zone of an enemy... So you are saying that if my Farzan (camoed) walks by a mine, my opponent asks me if he is hackable, but ONLY if my Farzan is not in total Cover to the mine... so I know, suddenly, that is not a normal mine, nor a hacker, thus I know it's a cybermine. Also, there is no explicit mentioning to Cybermasked hackers, but I assume they ignore the cybermine while on IMP state, since that won't detonate normal mines either. Just to be a completionist: Fairy Dust has no effect on the Cybermines, right? Since the program says "against hacking attacks", and the cybermine is a Comms Attack.
Well, until we get minelayer with cybermine (which could be soon?), every camo that is a cybermine is already known to the players to be a cybermine even if the troopers cannot shoot at it before they discover it for themselves first
Yeah, but considering Vanilla, where you can place so many markers if you want, you can force the opponent to either note those things or memo it... The problem is if any minelayer, that might or not be a Tunguska troop, gets Cybermines, as you note.
At least at the moment, nothing with Cybermines has minelayer, so both players know if a given camo marker is hiding a cybermine. It's not very elegant, and I think the rules need some clarification here as well, but it doesn't just break the game.
Even with minelayed Cybermines it doesn't break the game. It just makes Cybermines vulnerable to detection by a player walking a Non-hackable/non-hacker Camo token through their trigger Area. It does hit the Camo 'Hacker' vs Holo 1 issue though. But that's an existing problem.
In the skills download on the CB main site. They've updated the "new skills" pdf to include cybermines and the tunguska puppet shenanigans.
