Rules you would want changed?

The zone of control ARO always feels counter intuative to me.

Why can my opponent not react by shooting when i step out infront of them just because they heard me coming first, however they are able to shoot a more stealthy model because they didn't hear it coming so weren't prepared.

Delay should be an option for ZOC AROs just because it makes more sense.

 

I'll echo the pilot rules. They are silly as is.

I'd also add Guts movement to the list. I've always found it strange that my trooper has to drop prone where it stands if it's 2.1" away from cover. Just force a movement towards the nearest cover up to 2" (or exit the "danger zone"... which needs clarification as well) and drop prone at the end of the movement no matter what.

Allowing delays with any ZoC ARO is interesting, but then Sixth Sense loses one of the biggest benefits. That said, SS needs a complete overhaul as it is.

 

Give an actual lethal response.

Right now the best option for an Assault Hacker attacked by a KHD is to Reset. Aka 'dodge'. Basically, all a KHD has to do is spend orders until you fail the WIP roll to Reset.

 

Frenzy and Impetuous interaction with fireteams needs a redo in my mind. It's to much of a win win for those teams. You get cheaper units because of some serious drawbacks but those all go away in a link team. I've proposed that fireteams should keep these units from having to use their impetuous orders but they shouldn't get their cover bonuses like when they out of a fireteam. Less of a win win now and more balanced in what you get. You still get a coherent team that can take advantage of fireteam bonuses but they have a drawback now.

 

You don't think blackout as a response covers this sufficiently?

 

You could carbonite them, forcing them to eat DT 13 vs immobilize. And when they try to reset out of it, ARO Oblivion them.

Can't do much against the usual surprise shot, but you aren't completely helpless. I'd only bother reseting if they are attacking via their own repeater.

 

Symbiomates should simply give 1 extra W to the user.
When you take a W, you first remove the symbiomate, then proceed to remove eventual W off the model.

ZOC trick is something that also make no sense. Simply permit Delay as a zoc aro.
This way you'll give "stealth" an actual benefit in all situations, and you just need to fix some interaction with SS.

Remove all various CC levelled skills and put them on a single skill. Many levels are useless. Many levels are duplicates across various skills.

And please, remove Nested skills.

 

How do you draw the line?

Wu Ming are at the mid-way point between Zuyong (nearly as cheap as HI can get without having Fury) and Shang-Ji/Orc. Mobile Brigada, while sharing a lot of stats with Wu Ming, are 2 points from the Shang-Ji/Orc, and it's important to note that while Wu Ming shares a lot of stats with MB and Shangers, the stats that you typically get to use are also shared with Zuyong. And you can't really point at a Wu Ming's weapon loadouts as being better optimized since I dare say the two most used Wu Ming is easily the HMG and BSG+Deflector loadouts both of which have an exact or near exact mirror in Mobile Brigada.

Wu Ming doesn't get compared to Shang-Ji, they get compared to is Zuyong. My argument is that in terms of investment and complaints, Wu Ming and Zuyong are in one boat while Mobile Brigada qualifies for the Shang-Ji and Orc boat - the boat where the increased cost compared to the baseline HI doesn't make for good returns.
To be extremely reductive, to the question of "would your Mid-Tier HI replaced by a Zuyong copy-cat?" I think the answer for all of these is "Yes, but I'd miss the Hacker" (except for the Shangers where the answer is "I already got Zuyong, can't you make Shangers perform instead?")

What would convince me otherwise is if you'll be able to tell me it's common practice to occasionally take one or two Mobile Brigada profiles in vanilla and at least somewhat comfortably make lists in home sectorial with Mobile Brigada links without having to sacrifice access to the usual support pieces (caveat: LT is a problem for ISS since Wu Ming can't be LT). Not often, but often enough that it's not worth remarking on their inclusion (i.e. it's not "wow, you brought Mobile Brigada" but more like "so, it's a Mobile Brigada list" or "HMG HI, huh, okay").

That said - WOW, that point of PH is EXPENSIVE. Holy crap. I might have to revise how much Kinematica (as it turns out) doesn't add to point costs. This is the stuff I'm talking about. PH isn't used that much at all and slapping exponential curve on it seems excessive.

As others have already pointed out, you've got a few options where you'll roll WIP and be able to negatively affect the KHD instead of just rolling WIP and hoping for the best. In the circumstances where the KHD is attacking through their own repeater or where the KHD is under the protection of Kaleidoscope, Reset might possibly be better - but that's why I'm arguing that having roll MODs for one of the AHD hacking programs is more important than having yet another program where you're rolling at disadvantaged WIP.
So looking at options for defending against Redrum when hacked through your own repeater without Surprise Shot:
Carbonite: Roll WIP, IMM at DT 13.
Brain Blast: Roll WIP-3, WND at Nano 14.
Blackout: Roll WIP-3, DIS at Nano 15.
Oblivion: Roll WIP-3, ISO at Nano 16.

Of these, Brain Blast is the only one that won't stop a 2-wound or NWI KHD, but Brain Blast is the only one that will stop a 1-wound KHD fairly permanently where the two other permanent options will leave an active combi rifle. Carbonite is the only one that gives you fair odds at winning but also has the worse result if enemy fails BTS rolls. Brain Blast is notable for being the least likely to have their effect apply after BTS rolls while Oblivion and Carbonite are fairly likely at sticking.
In terms of defence, though, I think the concern is less to make it stick and more to not get killed off. KHD are notable for usually bringing -9 MODs and ignoring defences while an AHD/HD is notable for not having any hacking program that can mitigate this or impose MODs of their own. So, I'd personally prefer a low-effect, but highly defensive MODded defensive hacking program over having yet another program that's unlikely to succeed to impotently flail at the enemy with, and I'm specifically targeting Basilisk because it's already there and basically completely useless in its current form.

 

Oh god, yes! I guess it's off-topic, since it's about the way the rules are written rather than the rules themselves, but it's no help that the designers take every opportunity to create new words for skills - even if those skills are actually just a combination of extant skills.

 

- Change symbiomates to ignore saves from one weapon (have to choose which source of damage they negate if they take hits from multiple).
- Allow white noise to be used as a FtF against MSV
- Make breakwater usable without having been attacked first
- Deflector level 2 doesn't apply to entire fireteams
- Rework Fatality 2 to either reduct burst or increase BS without a crit bonus

 

Totally this!

Symbiomates: Ignore first wound sufferd - done.

Fatality lvl2: I like the idea someone mentioned here - reduce burst by 1 - enjoy higher crit rate
Guard: Should not be a CC Skill, ist should be a beast with stats, that throws itself into the fray, when its owener is attacked, as a skill it looked wrong and even of very low use.
AHD: Why the ASSAULT HD has not a single leathal programm?

What I dislike is the rule of impact templates. It´s okay that someone is hit, when not carfully placed, but why a ftf roll? It feels so wrong, that the template affect other targets, when it not even hits the main target.

 

What trick is this?

They're BS13 and ARM4, which is about as good as you get before you go up to elite HI. Unless you also consider Mobile Brigadas to be low tier?

I had a situation today where a unit of mine was shot on the front of his silhouette from out of line of sight and couldn't shoot back since technically they were behind me, it felt very unintuitive. There's also the whole problem with shooting people in the back of the head from above if you play by intent that needs to be worked out.

For outright changes, I suggested recently that crits be worked to be a success but to not be auto-wins in situations where players are doing the same action. For example, let's say I was the reactive player shooting at 10 and the active player was shooting B3 at 14. If I crit on a 10, and he rolled 8, 11 and 12, I would like my crit to beat his 8 and hit him, but I would still take the 11 and 12 hits. That would maintain the "anti-rambo" effect of crits while feeling waaay better for the active player.

I also think EM crits shouldn't always override the other ammo type when dual wielded, that's a load of crap and needs to be fixed.

 

OK, I may have some options the next time I get KHDd. I will note that Brain Blast is going to deal with at least 8 of 10 Killer Hackers permanently, there are only a couple 2W KHDs out there.

For the love of all that is holy, THIS!!!!! At the very least, display the nested skills in parentheses.

Yes, I know that sometimes a combination of skills is better than the some of the costs. Deal with it.

 

@meikyoushisui read my response to Banthafodder. They aren't used in the capacity of mid-tier troopers and they don't cost mid-tier either. If you can make a good case for Mobile Brigada being used as low-tier, I'm all ears.

Besides, classification can be damned, that's not the point.

 

Ekhm.. Hospitallers ... ekhm. But that actually only enforce your point as they do get ~6-10 "free" pts worth of stuff due to frenzy (and are still not considered crazy optimized like some WB or Posthumans, "just" a solid HI with good staying power).

 

Well... yeah... Hospitaller absolutely behave like premium HI along the lines of Cranes or Aquila. Or Daofei.
Mileage may vary regarding whether those are individually effective or not, but I don't hear as many complaints about them as the units whose HMG profile ends up in between 2/40 and 2/50 without discount abilities.

Funnily enough, there seems to be a few abilities that almost universally makes a unit cost effective (no, not MSV) while units relying on raw stats tend almost universally to be less fortunate.

 

Fk, Aquila and ORcs are great example of "overstatted" units (similar KotHS).

 

I would like the echo the ZoC/ARO trickery. Even if it takes away one of Sixth Sense's benefits, Sixth Sense is still very strong and a nuisance to get around.

As for Symbiomates, I would be fine if they couldn't absorb Fire ammo attacks, just to make them weak to something.

 

I'm going to claim "mileage may vary" as covering Aquila, but I honestly meant Swiss Guard.

TBH, if Aquila's MSV3 (specifically) had a slightly more reasonable cost, I don't think your reaction would be the same