Adhesive Ammo and targets without a PH score? (i.e. CrazyKoalas/Madtraps)

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Hecaton, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    What happens when a Koala or MadTrap gets hit by an adhesive launcher?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    When those are fired upon with lethal ammo, they roll directly ARM or BTS, with a value of 0.

    I'd say the same applies to ADH ammo, they roll... with PH 0, so they autofail so they get glued automatically.
     
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  3. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what the intent is but I'd agree with @xagroth. If it happened during a game I'd go with an auto fail and move on.
     
  4. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Can states (IMM, Targeted, etc) even be applied to crazykoalas? I thought the Activation section of those states mention troopers being affected, not targets.
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The answer is fairly simple: Can a Crazy Koala or Madtrap activate a mine or force-boos other perimetral weapons? If yes, then yeah, they can be glued... If not, it is quite funny, since you can fire at them but not glue them... Not to mention fire a template weapon at them and maybe affect their controller XD

    Also, applying the Isolated state to the controller will enter the Disconnected STATE at the end of the order...
     
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  6. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I always thought that it was pretty clear that koalas can't set off other perimeter items. If I'm wrong about that, I agree with you that solves the issue. To your other point, that's an interesting observation. Disconnected does mention the "controller of a trooper". However, it is also explicitly mentioned in the perimeter description that they enter the state:
    "A Perimeter Item which is not in Stand By Mode will enter the Disconnected state at the end of the Order in which it breaks Coherency with its bearer or if its bearer enters the Isolated, or any Null state"

    So I think the conclusion that I am left with is that them entering disconnected is the exception rather than the rule.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    In the active turn they trigger AROs as if they were troopers. That's why you can react to shoot them etc.
     
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  8. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Derp, dunno how I missed that line. The question still stands though of if states can be applied to them because they aren't actually troopers.
     
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  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    "States" yeah: Disconnected for the reasons stated (Isolated controller, far away...). "IMM 1 or 2" States would be what your doubt is about ;)
     
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  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The question of whether states only apply to Troopers and to nothing else isn't entirely clear. But you can make it work.

    Disconnected normally applies to Troopers. Perimeter Items are not Troopers HOWEVER their own rules make it clear that they enter a Disconnected state.

    "A Perimeter Item which is not in Stand By Mode will enter the Disconnected state at the end of the Order in which it breaks Coherency with its bearer or if its bearer enters the Isolated, or any Null state."

    No other state which applies to Troopers has this exception (so other than Damaged / Destroyed). Ergo Perimeter Items can not enter any states other than Disconnected, Damaged or Destroyed because they are not Troopers they merely trigger AROs as if they were.
     
    #10 inane.imp, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  11. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    Neither does Disconnected, you mention the rule which puts it in the Disconnected state, but nothing in that state inherently causes it to function with non-troopers, in fact the state itself is clearly written to only effect troopers.

    The same would go for adhesive ammunition, nothing in the ammo specifically calls out troopers, just "the target", it is the equivalent to the text you quoted from the perimeter rules and is sufficient to apply the state.

    The ACTUAL issue, is that most states are written specific to troopers, the fact that we can infer that perimeter weapons are meant to suffer the effect on one state written in this way actually strongly suggests other states should apply even though they aren't troopers.
     
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  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It would seem that @HellLois is needed here to solve this, since it seems like all relevant data has been presented without a satisfactory conclusion.
     
  13. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for resurrection spell, guys, but this came up again today in our game. Can you jam a Koala? if so, what happens if you succeed? I see the arguments above, so I suspect that @HellLois is needed still (unless I missed a clarification).
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    What effect would Isolated have on a Perimeter Item?
     
  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Oh yet another issue with "what is a trooper" and "objects classification in infintiy" xD
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    It's got nothing to do with that. I'm asking what would happen to a Perimeter Item if it were Isolated.
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Thematically? Disconnected. RAW, I have no idea.
     
  18. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    RAW, it has no effect whatsoever, as the Perimeter rule doesn't call out Isolated on the Perimeter Item as having any effect, and it's not an Activation clause for the Disconnected state either.
     
  19. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Is the Koala a trooper or deployable equipment? Does the Koala possess the Comms equipment trait?

    So why would a Jammer do anything against a piece of equipment that is unable to receive orders and lack the Comms Equipment trait?
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Would it prevent the Koala from receiving orders during active turn? (I.e. is the Koala considered to also be a recipient of orders when the controller is?)
     
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