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Smoke and sixth sense

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by kghamilton, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    I know why it shouldn't be an attack ruleswise from interactions. But i can't find anywhere why it isn't.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    CabalTrainee likes this.
  3. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    If a smoke is not an attack then it can be used while being stunned ?
     
  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Also isn't "Grenade Throw" technicly a BS attack using PH, thus having an "attack" label ?
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    By definition, yes.

    Read the fine thread, and the previous one?
     
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  6. SoMann

    SoMann Member

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    Does this mean that if all but one in a fireteam respond with BS attack and the last with smoke grenade it will be rejected from the fireteam since the smoke isn't an attack? Or is it just the effect of the smoke that's not an attack but the action is?
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    The Skill being declared is still BS Attack.
     
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  8. SoMann

    SoMann Member

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    Then it can't be used when stunned!

    I think I got it now.
    Using smoke as a grenade is the skill 'BS attack' (important in fireteam) but it is not an Attack (important in response, This is why ss2 doesn't trigger).

    - If your model is under the template then you get a dodge to move 2 inch.
    - If you have LoF you also get the normal LoF ARO.

    Question, do you move 2 inch or do you only move 2 inch if you can leave the template with those 2 inch? Like gut rolls.

    Edit: edited the line and removed "and if you don't have LoF to the attacker you are not a target of the attack" and "This is why ss2 doesn't trigger because unless you have LoS you are not a target of a attack."
     
    #28 SoMann, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    No, it's not. That's the whole point of this thread.

    Sixth Sense doesn't trigger because Smoke is not an Attack.
    Sixth Sense triggers if Attacked, even without Line of Fire to the Attacker.

    The Dodge triggered by being affected by a template is a standard Dodge (with -3), so you have free choice over where the 2" is taking you.
     
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  10. SoMann

    SoMann Member

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    Edited my summary.
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Aren't those 2 contradictory ?
     
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  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    So Smoke is a BS Attack for purposes of link team (because suddenly it's not special dodge?).

    Smoke is not a BS Attack for purposes of "stunned" state (because it's special dodge?).

    Smoke is not a BS Attack for purposes of SS2 (because it's special dodge?).



    Do I get it right ?
     
  13. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    If it's not an attack, does it mean you can affect "illegal" target (camo/impersonation marker) even if there is no legal target under the template ?
     
  14. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why not... considering it has the "targetless" trait anyway.
     
  15. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    No. It's a BS Attack for all purposes, but without the Attack label.
     
  16. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Ok. Where in the Smoke it's written that it abolish a lable attack from BS Attack?

    Wiki could probably also have something to distinguish when it is speaking about a skill/label/whatever as currently it's hard to say ;/
     
  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Yay found it:

    Smoke and Speculative Fire
    Certain weapons that use Smoke Special Ammunition allow the user to use the Speculative Fire Common Skill. In that case, the Common Skill Speculative Fire works normally, even though it is a Special Dodge and not an Attack.

    But its stupidly buried in the rules. Plus there's still not said what exactly is a "Special Dodge" (wiki refers itself to same Smoke Ammunition).


    It could really use a opening sentence "It's a BS Attack without Attack label".
     
  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Srsly all those Jammers and Special Dodge could frikking really use their own dedicated skill as BS Attack in their case really starts looking like a "Bullshit Attack"....
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    So... now that it's been linked and pointed out a grand total of 3 times in this thread alone, can we all agree that using Smoke Special Ammunition means the skill declaration will not have the label "Attack"? It would be extremely silly to have to link it and spell it out a fourth time in less than 3 pages.
     
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  20. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    I recommend just accepting that people will have to repeatedly explain this rule. Rewriting these skills or adding something into the rules is probably the only hope we have of stopping this train wreck. I even added it as my signature.
     
    pakohbadajoz likes this.
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