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No Bakunin, no party!

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Lareon, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known well-knower

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    Alhoa fellow Nomads!

    Being mainly a Vanilla player (and sometimes a Corregidor one) I never fully embraced Bakunin as a sectorial. However in the last months I became increasingly intrigued by our furry cousins. Our furry, depraved, maniacal cousins.

    So! I'm thinkering a bit on their army list, and I'm trying to do something that can be called a viable list. How do you build a bakunin list, usually?

    I tried to do something:

    [​IMG] Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] TASKMASTER HMG / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 49)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] REVEREND HEALER MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 37)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    What do you think?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I think you have messed up two things. First, a lone Riot Grrrl is not like a Brigada, alone they tend to last even less (frenzy negating them cover is a bitch) and you might be better served by trying to get a Prowler instead.
    Second, you have the least interesting haris of Custodiers. The usual mix is a Custodier with Kusanagi and a Healer, which is a killy haris you don't want to leave in the same group as the other pointman (the taskmaster). Also, the Custodier cannot use Cybermask and remain inside a haris, so it's better to leave them as a lone operative.
    This one might be more interesting

    [​IMG] Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 10)
    [​IMG] REVEREND HEALER MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] KUSANAGI MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 44)
    [​IMG] SALYUT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] REVEREND MOIRA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 34)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    [​IMG] TASKMASTER HMG / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 49)
    [​IMG] ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] SALYUT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  3. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known well-knower

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    Thank you for the feedback!
    - About the Riot I thought to use her as an "assault specialist". Running toward the objective trusting her armor/wounds/hyper-dynamics. I used her successfully in several Vanilla lists (eventually spending few orders in the last turns to counter her impetuosity). But I know it's not really effective.
    - The taskmaster is a free agent, so I put him in group 1 only to show a full 10-orders group.

    About the custodiers you're right. thank you for the hint :)

    Is there something important to keep in mind when trying to do a Bakunin list (generally speaking)?
     
  4. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Longer ranges can be rough for Bakunin. For the most part we tend to be mid to close ranges, with a few units to cover the differences. That said the long range units can be brutal if used properly. Sin Eater HMG or Moira MSR are awesome longer range ARO units as well as Feuerbach Tysklons with Supportware. Active turn you are usually better using smoke (morlocks) or Eclipse from Uberfall to cover your initial approach.
     
  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Don't they have a shot to fix that?
     
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  6. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known well-knower

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    Developed by Black Labs. So I won't put too much trust in it
     
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  7. Eldpollard

    Eldpollard New Member

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    Frenzy only makes a unit impetuous, not extremely impetuous so you can just choose not to use the impetuous order, you don't need to burn an order to cancel it. They'll still count as impetuous in terms of not getting cover though, but there's no way of cancelling that.

    For general Bakunin advice, the only MSV we have is riot grrls and that's MSV1, so if you're not taking them you'll want some direct templates to deal with camo and ODD units.
     
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  8. deadfli_goes_splat

    deadfli_goes_splat New Member

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    I've had a huge amount of success taking Morlocks. I try not to field less than 3 of them. I stick to the cheapest (6pt??) versions.

    Keep them well hidden out of LOF so that their impetuous doesn't get them wasted on their first move then just go crazy with them. Their smoke gives them amazing survivability, and their chain rifles can catch out unsuspecting link teams etc

    Their smoke is also great for covering the rest of your forces advance.

    Plus they aren't to bad in CC if you ever get to that
     
  9. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Bandits have the same numbers for CC, and their CC is still better than their 12 BS Camo shooting. So it's probably good enough.
     
  10. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    You forgot at least two Morlocks... and a sixth Moderator is worth his/her points in gold.

    [​IMG] III Interplanetario B4 (R7408)
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] PROWLER Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 36)
    [​IMG] PROWLER (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 33)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    With this list I got 9th on the Interplanetario back in 2016 (Missions were: Supplies, Rescue, Frontline, Firefight and Highly Classified)
     
    #10 Tristan228, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  11. Tmist

    Tmist Member

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    Ok, I have been playing Bakunin since I got into Infinity. I see what you want to do with your list, and I get it. A few things to consider is that Custodiers in a haris make it hard to use your hacking programs. I love the golden trio (Kusanagi, Custodier, Healer). I prefer Kusanagi with a spitfire, but that's a personal choice as to where you want your SWC to go. This also gives you the ability to move/hack or move/attack or move/heal or move/whatever. also, keep in mind that the healer has a BS of 13. So taking the Multi Rifle healer is a great option (as I see you have already done). If you don't want to use Kusanagi, then I would go with an Assault Hacker with Boarding Shotgun. The HD+ I mainly use for support programs and ARO (White Noise, Spotlight, or Assisted Fire in active and whatever applies in ARO). As long as you are not reckless with it then you will get more out of the AHD than 2 HD+. (and Icebreaker is just a great program) Also, don't be afraid to break the link and put Kusanagi (or the healer or both) into SF and then reform your link at the start of the turn.

    Moderators can do more work than people realize...especially in a 5 man link. However, you want to make sure that you are building that link for either long range (ie Sniper/paramedic) or mid range (ie Spitfire/hacker). Being BS10 base, if you have both the MS and Spitfire and the MS goes down then you are trying to advance with a 4 man link with a BS10 spitfire and that's not playing to your strengths. If you are using the Golden Trio then I would use the long range Moderator link primarily for ARO.

    I love Zeros. Cheap camo specialists are always nice. I like the 2 that you selected already, but don't rule out the deployable repeater, MS, or minelayer options. Using your ARO to deploy a repeater makes your opponent think twice about continuing their advance (with HI or a Tag, both popular this season) when you have 2 Custodiers. And having a camo MS zero is just a surprise that no one expects. People tend to cover their front to back lanes, but not their side to side lanes.

    The 2 Zonds that you picked (I'm guessing for ARO) feel out of place. Sure flash plus is nice, but having Morlocks gives you more utility. you get smoke and meta-chemistry.
    In active turn you can:
    1) Cover the advance of your troops
    2) be an alpha strike unit
    or be used in ARO to:
    1) Cover your flanks or DZ from AD troops
    2) be a speed bump for advancing enemies
    I like the E/M CCW to force 2 different saves, but some people prefer the DA CCW for a more "killie" option.

    Riot Grrls are great...I suck at using them. But they fill a hole that a lot of Bakunin lists are lacking. They are great at closer ranges and dodging. Custosiers and Moiras are not great at dodging. So Direct Template Weapons become your enemy real fast. But they excel at mid and long range. This is also the place to think about the Taskmaster. What is he there for? ARO or Active Turn? Is he your main active piece or your backup? At this point I would chose Riot Grrls or Taskmaser. I believe you would have around 80pts and 2 swc to spend by this point.

    If you Keep the TM, I would switch it to a Red Furry and make it your Lt. Then you can leverage Free Agent and utilize your Lt. order more than if it was a Moderator. Because if you are using Free Agent then you are not attacking with it in turn 1 and the closer range will be more useful. Plus you get Koalas for area control. Then you have 26 pts and 1 SWC left over for a Reaktion Zond. If need be you can always command token the Zond into group 1 for late game assault. (assuming it has made it that far into the game).

    Keeping the feel of your list it would look something like this:

    [​IMG] Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] KUSANAGI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 43)
    [​IMG] REVEREND HEALER MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] TASKMASTER Lieutenant Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 53)
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This give you ARO presence, Area Control, Smoke, and hacking presence. You can use command tokens to reform the Haris after putting them in SF or to advance the 2 morlocks. Although with only 2 morlocks, I would use them to cover the advance of the haris and save your command tokens to reform the haris turn 2/3. and with the 2 regular orders in group 2 you can cancel the Extreme Impetuous on turn one to make sure you get smoke down for your advancing Haris.

    The biggest concern I have is what mission you are playing. I feel like this is a good list for hybrid missions, but you will have issues in some missions. to many buttons and you don't have enough specialists or if it's a killie mission, you have 5 specialists that could be a liability.

    My overall thoughts on Bakunin:
    1) Building to the mission is very important. Bakunin goes down fast. most of our models are 1 wound. TM and Grrls help fill that gap, but our best pieces die quick when they get hit.
    2) You need to leverage "Nomad Tricks" (ie smoke, white noise, DTW, SF, ODD, Area Control like mines and kolals, etc.) in order to excel with them.
    3) Have a plan for your command tokens. Coordinated orders are great, but what else can you do with them?
    4) Bakunin has great ARO presence, consider Sin Eaters. They may not kill a lot, but people tend to avoid them and that can be more powerful by funneling troops in the direction you want.
    5) watch for heavy alphas (like JSA). Big alphas from your opponent can cripple you fast if you don't deploy right or don't leverage Bakunin's naturally strong ARO game.

    Overall, I feel like you are on the right page. just remember that Bakunin (and Nomads in general for that matter) is a finesse army. trying to out gun PanO or take an Avatar head on is never a good idea. But forcing your opponent to chose between a hack ARO, shooting ARO, or a Koala to the face puts the ball in your court.

    ~Tmist
     
    #11 Tmist, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
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  12. theresponsibleone

    theresponsibleone Active Member

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    I think your list is fine, but the advice you've got is also reasonable. I like a solo specialist Riot Grrl for missions like Safe Area.

    Starting with a defensive link is an excellent way of getting the hang of link teams. I've got a lot of mileage out of aggressive placement of the Sniper, waiting for them, die, then reforming the link with a 6th Moderator and moving up the board with the Spitfire. It's a cheap second use that means you're not left with nothing to do when the sniper dies.

    I strongly recommend playing several games with the list you've got, seeing how you do, then deciding what you want to add to it from there.
     
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  13. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known well-knower

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    Usually I like to have a couple of Morlocks in my army (I mainly play Vanilla, so they're a very cheap smoke generation), but I felt they aren't the right choice in the list. I chose the Zonds over the Morlocks for some cheap order generation (to fuel the Zeros and the Taskmaster) plus to have some expendables yet not totally defenseless (ie: mimetism) repeaters for the Custodiers and the Zero KH. I prefer not to involve them in a direct confrontation, so the flash pulse is quite negligible in the role I gave them :)

    Overall, thank you very much guys. The picture is much more clear now.
     
    #13 Lareon, Dec 28, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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