I'm relatively new to Corregidor, but I've dabbled slightly in vanilla and I've always had to blink and double-take when I looked at the combat remotes. I've been spoiled by the Rui Shi and the Bulleteer, and it kills me to think the Tsyklon costs one or two orders extra for reduced effectiveness (I'm not a great believer in armor). I own and have used the Lunokhod, and even though it kills me to pay for an extra order over the bulleteer, I admit it has its place especially combined with crazy koalas and tomcats. So I'm wondering if I should pick up a box of Tsyklons. Those who love them -- why? Those who hate them -- why? The spitfire *seems* like the winner, custom made for suppression fire, but do you guys find that it's just easily countered with smoke and chain rifles and hacking devices like the bulleteer is when in suppression fire? Is there something cool about the feuerbach I'm missing?
I use single Spitfire Tsyklon or pair of Feuerbach ones combined with EVO for Overclock. That`s where it shines for me. B2 EXP on BS 12 in ARO is great defence.
EVO's Overclock (or a humble Enhanced Reaction) on a Remote with BS12 EXP weapon with 360º AND X VISORS!!!! (plus its own Repeater and BTS 6). And the Pitcher. The Feuerbach has the same range bands (but with better modifiers) as the HMG or the Heavy Rocket Launcher, in that regard it's more taxed than the Spitfire (since the only thing it does is to remove the -3 on the first range band, the ZoC of the model... while the Spitfire gets turned into an HMG more or less). It's kinda mounting the list around it, but for hacking-heavy lists they are invaluable. The combo goes EVO + Flashmimetic 8pts x2 + Tsyklon or Total Reaction bots + something. You can tailor the list for Active hunt with the Spitfires (in which case the EVO won't use Overclock, and they will want Marksmanship) or for reactive turn (with 1 or 2 Feuerbach, and 0-1 Total Reaction and 2 Transductor zonds). Personally, I would not buy both the Tsyklon box and 2 Lunkhod blisters, specially if you have a Total Reaction bot too. It's really hard to fit all those expensive remotes instead of just go into Bakunin and grab the Riot Grrls!!!!
Overclock & Enhanced Reaction are nasty on the Feuerbach, allowing you to use EXP rounds in ARO at B2. I still prefer the Spitfire generally. The Tsyklon and Lunokhod don't just have an armor advantage, they are far more mobile due to climbing plus. It helps negate issues with the base size and combined with their speed makes them really easy to get into a good position. What really makes the Tsyklon shine for me is the X-visor. While it might "only" be BS12, the x-visor and Marksman mean that you get the most out of that 12. You are effectively BS15 from 24-32 and from 16-24 in SF, since you are canceling the -3. The Pitcher is another nice feature (also enhanced by the X-visor). When someone drops a Chain Rifle on you, instead of dodging on 7s, hope your armor tanks it and drop a repeater in a key area. Also, BTS 6 should not be taken for granted. Most AHD/HDs will find BTS 6 to be a challenge, and if they go for Isolation the Tsyklon can still go into SF and tie up a lot of the board.
I swear by the Spitfire Tsyklon. That guy has won a lot of games for me. His X-visor makes him ignore penalties on the larger rangebands of the spitfire for extra punch and allows him to plant repeaters far than anyone else. Combine him with an interventor and you'll have fun hacking people all across the table. This last week I placed a repeater next to a deployed starco Brigada team and started immobilising them one by one. Fun times. They are also nice defenders when it comes to it with their 360 visor plus suppression. Also don´t forget climbing plus. No lieutenant or prone trooper is safe from Tsyklon shenanigans.
The Tsyklon and Lunokhod are both awesome. They are not straightforward active turn shooters, though they can absolutely do that, but rather flexible and tactically varied troops that enhance the force. They're more manoeuvreable, with climbing plus, and have better control of the board, with 360 visors, koalas on the Lunokhod, and the Repeater on the Tsyklon. The X-Visor with suppression means you can pin a lot of the board, hitting on 12s up to 24" away, which is superior to other Spitfire REMs. They're tougher too, both the Rui Shi and Bulleteer are made of tissue paper and are vulnerable to impacts, ARM 6 in cover and ARM 3 to templates/in the open saves hits more than you think, makes your opponent think twice about sacrificing a warband as they may simply lose it for no trade. They're also in a faction that's way better for REMs than YJ or PanO. Both have poor to middling Engineers and Hackers, Nomads really do great great specialist options that can keep those REMs running hot and fast for longer. TL;DR, A YJ or PanO REM will win you a firefight. A Nomad REM will also do that, but it'll support your hackers with a pitcher/protect your LT from an Oniwiban/control the board much more effectively with koalas or 360 suppression/get reliably fixed if broken/not just die to templates etc.
Like most Nomad units, if you only factor in firepower you are going to feel let down. Both Nomad combat remotes come with a lot of extra rules that are less user friendly than ODD & MSV2, but they don't have hard counters like ODD and MSV2 have.
3 ARM also adds up a lot when you have 2 unconscious states. It's hard to put them dead and you can keep repairing it. Remember that you want to shoot back on WB chain rifles, you have a 50% chance to block and even if you go unconscious you can just repair as long as the WB isn't around to finish you.
Thank you for all the responses. I especially appreciate the reminder of the potential effectiveness of Armor 3 against chain rifles, especially with Tomcats available, though that does force your attack vector up one of the table edges. I haven't found climbing plus particularly effective, except as mentioned to get through those tight gaps. On a remote, climbing up onto a roof leaves you open to a massive number of ARO's since you can't go prone. If there's a building in the middle of the table, however, I can definitely see climbing a spitfire up there and going into suppressive fire. The trouble is, if it gets taken out on your opponent's first order, you've spent several orders getting into position, and now you have to spend four or five orders bringing your tomcat in and climbing it up to repair it. And 31 points is just too much to leave broken in the middle of the table. I thought about burst 2 on the feurbachs linked with an EVO hacker. Trouble is ARO is so easy to counter in the current environment, and non sixth-sense low ballistic skill non-impact template triply so. I would really rather be spending that SWC elsewhere and rely on camo AROs that require a discover roll first, and non-swc or low-swc AROs like transductor zonds and warcors and alguacil forward observers and panzerfausts. That said, having them back in your deployment zone definitely gives them some staying power with two (effective) wounds and armor 3, if a wildcat engineer is within striking distance. These guys might be the HI-style ARO piece I've been missing. They definitely get more attractive when you consider your opponent is going to be spending multiple orders on them putting them down. I should mention too that hacking is relatively poor in Corregidor, so while the pitcher is definitely useful, it's less attractive than it is in vanilla or bakunin. Still, I do appreciate the reminder of it because when considering the unit I pretty much ignore it. And it definitely has its uses (even the lowly alguacil hacker in a full link isn't a bad counter to an enemy HI link team, thanks to sixth sense, and a sixth sense wildcat could be legit fearsome). I hear ya! Just trying to measure the 31 point 1 swc spitfire against a 26 point climbing plus HMG, or even a 19 point 0 swc wildcat that can also go into suppression fire. The difference with the bulleteers and rui shi is that they are obviously better attack pieces than almost any other similarly-priced units in their respective sectorials; their cost comes from their support in the form of a hacker and an engineer. In corregidor, I'm almost always taking a hacker (for double transductor zonds) and an engineer (for my wildcat specialist) anyway, so perhaps I should start thinking about the Tsyklons as cheaper than they seem since the support is already there for them (the engineer and hacker together are 12 extra points I'm already spending, so I guess I could really characterize the tsyklon as only 19 points in comparison to the rui shi/bulleteer). Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I'll proxy my lunokhod as a Tsyklon spitfire to see how I like it and if I do maybe I'll try the double feuerbach double transductor zond evo hacker trick next.
Remember that climbing plus is not just for going into the rooftops. Don't be afraid to think in 3d and move (and finish turn) in walls. When you are on a wall you can slice the pie against enemies that would have LOS to you if you attacked from the ground. However be aware that while on vertical surfaces you lose cover.
I used to play mostly Corregidor and couldn't figure out what the fuzz was about with combat remotes (except for the tr) . Now I'm slowly easing into vanilla with interuptors and Zoe and it's such a game changer. The free hacking with the Lt and higher WIP/HD+ makes a hacking game possible and suddenly repeaters and pitcher are gold. In Corregidor I'd rather take an Intruder .
I spent a lot of time playing both Lunokhods and Tsyklons. I simply do not consider them worthy by comparison to some other assault Remotes. Do not get me wrong - they're perfectly fine, they're ok - just not OP enough to bother :P I really like enchanced Reaction Lunokhods and love Koalas - just Moran's are so much better for the same price in so many situations... Learned to value Morans over Lunokhods. would always put total Reaktion Zond over Tsyklon Spitfire. etc, etc. So - my personal feel is that lately they just never get through final cut when I make my lists.
I agree. The Reaktion Zond is best, followed distantly by the Lunokhod. I am not impressed with Tsyklons. Tsyklons are needy models. First, the Tsyklon wants a HD+ for supportware/white noise. Then, it wants a KHD to leverage repeater/pitcher and protect the hacker. Then, it wants an engineer to repair it so you get the full benefit of Remote Presence and 3 ARM. Once you get on the table, it's going to want like eight orders to buff, move, white noise, attack, repair, suppression fire... it's not like a Reaktion Zond where it can be happy with three or four. If I am going to lay out support like that for a model, it better be the Lizard. The Tsyklon isn't good enough to justify all that help. (p.s. Pi-Well is the actual best remote. He is impossible to regret, like a Zero. Pi-Well forever)
I think most of their support (if not all) is already present in most lists and that they have a "Best model to use" situation in most games as well as "Always at least a little useful" in the rest, more than I can say of many troops.
Not sure if it came up yet, but Tsyklons really start to be awesome together with a HD+, so in Corregidor they are still good, but not amazing as they are in other Nomad sectorials. It's pretty much why I prefer White Star over Corregidor now. :D
I don't understand why someone would take a TR Bot over a Sin Eater, and offensively, the Tsyklon Spitfire blows it away. Run the dice if you doubt me. To each their own though.
