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Is the B2 granted by Enhanced Reaction a "bonus"?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Hecaton, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Importantly, if it is a bonus it doesn't stack with the +1 burst from Fireteam 3+ members. Enhanced Reaction isn't phrased as a +1 (and it's definitely not a MOD), so it seems that it works, as per RAW... has this been ruled differently at some point?
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It has been answered before by essentially "how is having B increased to 2 not a bonus?"
    (Also found answer by Palanka that Saturation Zone B MOD are applied after Burst has been distributed, so it won't interfere with ER or Fireteam bonuses)
     
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    For a TR bot it's not.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    daboarder, toadchild and deep-green-x like this.
  5. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    So if a weapon is B1 normally it would be B2 with Enhanced Reaction in ARO?
     
  6. Pietras404

    Pietras404 Active Member

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  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Note he said "for a trooper with B1 in ARO." Which would imply that, for a model with Total Reaction, it isn't... but it's either a bonus or it's not. Looks like a case of someone wishing the rules said something they don't. I understand the balance concern, but if CB cared about that they wouldn't have issued that ruling about the interaction between Shock and NWI/Dogged.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I am sure someone does wish the rules used a more consistent language, I sure do, even here where it's fairly clear. You will, however, be hard-pressed not to call Enhanced Reaction's granted modified burst value a MOD or bonus, even if fixed values modifications aren't compliant with the game's definition of Modifications it does comply with English definition of a modification.
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If it literally said "modification" you'd have an argument; as it stands MOD has a clear definition in the rules and Enhanced Reaction isn't covered under it.
     
  10. Bobman

    Bobman MERC

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    It kind of is though.

    MODs, by increasing or decreasing the numeric value of an Attribute, denote the difficulty of the Skill at hand.

    So unless your burst is two already it is.
     
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  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Burst isn't an attribute.
     
  12. Bobman

    Bobman MERC

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    No, but Burst MODs are referenced elsewhere. So Burst can be ‘MODded’
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's a non-sequiter. In any case, certain effects - like, say, getting possessed - can set a model's attributes to certain values. This isn't considered a MOD; if a Possessed tag shoots or CC attacks, the modifications to its attributes are not considered mods. Ditto with Enhanced Reaction; it is setting the burst of a model to a certain value. And since Burst is not an attribute, the red box in the wiki page on MODs wouldn't apply.
     
  14. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I agree with the interpretation that Enhanced Reaction is a bonus, even for a troop with Total Reaction. The standard ARO burst value is 1; anything that grants a higher value is a bonus. In the case of Total Reaction and Enhanced Reaction you have your choice of two bonuses that don't stack. One of them is clearly the better choice, but that doesn't make it not a choice.
     
  15. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    • In the Reactive Turn, this +1 Burst bonus is not stackable with other bonuses or Burst MODs provided by other rules, Special Skills, Equipment, or Hacking Programs, except for those who specifically state otherwise.
    Why does it state hacking programs, if there is no hacking program which gives you bonuses or mods to burst?;)
    (It is just poorly written i think)

    Btw the enchanced reaction is not optional,
    Only overclock states that it is not obligatory.

    + Total reaction is not a bonus nor mod, it is an automatic skill which lets you use your full B value in ARO.
     
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  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I imagine its just in case they want to create such a program in the future.
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I just don't see where it says that in the text. There are times (like in the fireteam +1 burst itself) that it's specifically called out as a bonus - Enhanced Reaction doesn't say so, and there's no categorization of a bonus, formally, in the rules, so your conclusion seems specious.
     
    #17 Hecaton, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    seriously.....does it mod your burst?

    oh it does...hey look at that
     
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  19. GuanYunChang

    GuanYunChang 二哥

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    Honestly the way I read that, as written, is that something affected by Enhanced Reaction doesn't so much as "add 1" to the burst value but rather sets the burst value to 2 in ARO. As quoted. Which means taking Enhanced Reaction instead of Total Reaction would actually make a TR bot worse. Fortunately it's an optional skill so even if you Enhance a TR bot it doesn't need to use Enhanced Reaction!

    Apropos of nothing, is there any point to debating how it interacts with Fireteam burst mods? Are there any REM type troops in any sectorial that can participate in a Haris or a Core fireteam? If there are can you tell me what they are? I'm admittedly not very savvy on lists outside of Yu Jing
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It doesn't though. It sets it to 2. It doesn't say +1.
     
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