Hello guys Two situations came up that are both related to being (or not being) inside smoke. I haven't really been able to resolve them myself and just went with what people told me, but now I want to know for certain: 1) A model has part of its base, but not its entire base, covered by a smoke template. I've been told that its controlling player can choose to have it be considered either inside or outside the smoke. I haven't been able to find a rule supporting it, but I might not have looked hard enough. Is that true? 2) Model A is inside a building, let's say that it has no LoF to anywhere outside the building. Model B throws a smoke grenade onto the roof, right above Model A. Is model A considered to be inside the smoke? Thanks in advance!
A) if the base is inside or even simply touching an area of effect he's considered to be in it. Neither the smoke tossing player nor the affected model player can change that. Any trooper in base contact with a Template, or whose base or Silhouette Template is covered at least partially by a Template, is equally affected by the Template Weapon or Equipment. B) smoke, like other template, follow LoF from the blast focus to the target and can be blocked by total cover building. So the blast focus being on the rooftop and the model being under it, and assuming the roof blocks LoF (as in, you cannot see and shoot through the roof as it doesn't have a grid) then no the model is not considered to be in the smoke. "Template Weapons, Scenery Items, and Total Cover Each Template has a Blast Focus to determine if nearby scenery protects a trooper from the Template's effects. If LoF can be drawn from the Blast Focus to the trooper, then that trooper is affected by the Template. However, if the LoF cannot be drawn due to the presence of a piece of scenery, then the trooper is considered to be in Total Cover and is not affected by the Template."
Off Topic, but a reminder that not all templates are the same. :) White Noise is not Smoke. It is not blocked by Total Cover, so in example B) the trooper would be in a White Noise Zone.
Where was this confirmed out of curiosity because White Noise has the exact same verbiage as smoke templates in terms of creating zero visibility zones to the point of the two abilities share the same FAQ entries in the wiki.
Smoke grenades are template weapons so follow the rules for the blast focus and being blocked by Total Cover. The White Noise program just makes an area with a visibility condition, without the template rules ever being invoked. The one shared FAQ between the pages is because the White Noise (program) FAQ refers to not having the Special Dodge trait so is therefore copied to the page that described Special Dodge. It's the exact opposite of confirming that Smoke and White Noise work similarly...
Just a small note, but while CB is taking notes or possibly writing something down in the "Low priority stuff for N4.doc" (or is it called "I can't believe someone actually took the time to ask this.txt"?), but... well... wouldn't it make sense if White Noise wasn't infinite height and simply marked a cylinder the diameter of a blast template within the hacking area (HA)? Not that people play with so much verticality, typically, but it does seem odd that the template can't go outside the HA, but the zone sure does.
Oh god please no - why overcomplicate already complicated rules? Infinite height is simple and easy to follow - seriously.
what happen after the repeater moved and/or got destroyed ? The zone will still exist outside the HA, but if limited to HA height then where do you measure once the repeater that was used cease to be ? Yes, you just measure from ground level as that is where it was anyway... my point is even if limiting WN to HA height, you still don't solve the fact that "the zone can exist outside the HA". So we might as well leave it as it is. PS - I have no idea how the hacker maintain (as it is NFB) the WNZ once it is outside his HA (either height-wise or from the HA changing during the turn).
The simple change would be to simply state that the White Noise zone only exists within the part of the cylinder that's inside the HA and that the skill is automatically cancelled if the blast focus should ever get outside the HA. See below. It's a bit of a weird one already since it's a one-shot hack that has NFB. Currently it's complicated because it's an amalgamation of a on-going effect and a simple fire-and-forget. While it would drastically decrease the potency of the skill, changing it to a Supportware wouldn't be outlandish, but this is taking us further off topic. Simply officially and with finality clarifying how NFB works for it would take priority over all else. Seems like an FAQ on the topic is still missing.
Much simpler change would be to pick a point on the gaming board and within Hacking Area, then place a blast marker centered on the point. Why would a White Noize dissapear after HA leaves? Supportware does not dissapear if a REM leaves HA... I would love to see some of the rules and especially the way they are put into words being simplified for the smoother experience. Infinity is great and it has a lot of complexity and it is overall why it is a great game in the first place - but the way some rules are introduced... dayum, just keep things simple and let the perfect engine and tactical options shine :)
Completely agree it's odd. But limiting it vertically isn't the solution. It just means that it's impossible to place it on vertical terrain (unless you can centre it in space). Honestly only checking it horizontally is fine. It's not even nearly the weirdest thing about White Noise. Honestly removing NFB would be easier. People already generally go 'WTF' when I explain how it works.
Supportware also goes away if the Hacker dies. White Noise doesn't. They're about as similar as Smoke is.
