1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Anyone planning to write Vanilla tactica?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsolt, May 17, 2018.

  1. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,594
    It is true that starting with a Sectorial is easier.

    But that doesn't mean that it's not true that most new players begin with Vanilla.

    Some get good advice early and switch to focus on a Sectorial pretty quickly, but a LOT of new players start out in Vanilla.

    So my approach for Vanilla would certainly focus on that end, with some "high end" responses to the experienced players who have doubts about PanOceanian Vanilla as a competitive choice.
     
  2. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    753
    The forumites seem to have an aversion to playing vanilla PanO. In the previous iteration of the forums the tactica was never even updated from N2.

    Thus the best thing you have is sadly my tactica on 1d4chan, which is not that good of a source as I'm absolutely terrible at this game. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Infinity/N3_Tactics/PanOceania

    It's more of a unit description than an actual primer on tactics. I can analyze stats well enough, but making the right decisions is something I struggle with and I tend to play gimmicks.
     
    Commoner1, Barrogh and Teslarod like this.
  3. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    887
    How is Aquilla stupidly cheap? Also I don’t think pano comes with any discount on MSVs because of no smoke.
     
    xammy, FatherKnowsBest and barakiel like this.
  4. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

    Joined:
    May 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,299
    Likes Received:
    7,519
    If only that were true, quite a concept.
     
  5. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    654
    I wish the Aquila was cheaper. It would make it easier to justify his lack of profile options.
     
  6. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    582
    While I don't think that comparing profiles across factions is particularly useful, consider this:

    The Black Friar MSR pays the same as the Agema for Nanopulser, minus V:1 and 1 WIP
    The Kamau MSR pays 4 more points than the Brawler for +1 BS and Mimetism.
    The Nisse MSR pays 4 more points than the Agema for +1 BS, +1 Arm and Mimetism, minus 1 WIP
    The Black Friar MSR pays 4 points less than the Yaogat for +1 BS, minus Morat skill and 1 WIP
    The Nisse MSR pays 1 more points than the Maakrep for +1 BS and Mimetism, minus Medikit and V:1
    The Kamau MSR pays 3 more points than the Bao for +1 BS and Mimetism, minus V:1 and 1 WIP.
    The Nisse MSR pays 3/1 more points/swc than the Djanbazan for +1 BS, Multi and Mimetism, Minus Regeneration, 1 WIP
    The Nisse MSR pays 9 less points than the Intruder for minus Camo, 1 WIP and X Visor
    The Aquila HMG pays 1 more point than the Hsien for +1 BS, MSV3, minus nanopulser, 1 WIP

    I am pretty OK with every trade off on that list, meaning that Pan-O likely does have higher quality MSV options than the competition, depending on the precise scenario.
     
  7. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    654
    I don't feel a lack of choices. I'm mostly bitter that the Aquila HMG doesn't have an Lt option. We have Bolts... why not a sweet Lt rambo for high risk high reward lists.
     
  8. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    753
    I have written it so long ago that I forgot half the things in there. But IIRC I was comparing Aquilla to Hsien and Asura. 62 for his abilities feels more cost effective than those two, but they can use Smoke.

    I used the wiki format so that anyone can fix what I got wrong.
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  9. Superfluid

    Superfluid Welcome to Svalarheima

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    512
    If we're allowed a Cutter LT... why not an Aquila?
     
    xammy likes this.
  10. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,002
    Likes Received:
    4,661
    PanO >>
    << Nice Things
     
  11. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    887
    I think the Asura is the closest to the Aquilla guard, they have pretty similar stats and loadout.

    Multi rifle Asura is 68 pts while Multi rifle Aquilla is 58. They have pretty similar stats (+1BS -2WIP, -1ARM -3CC, while BS is always good, all other three are important for defending your HI), but Asura has a Nanopulser and No wound incapacitation. And no wound is I suppose a pretty expensive skill, and the rest sums up to a few points as well, so I don't think there's necessarily a discount here.
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  12. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    887
    This is a pretty cool comparison, but I don't really see any obvious MSV discount for Pano.

    (sorry, forum didn't merge the two posts)
     
    #32 Zsolt, May 26, 2018
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
    Golem2God and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  13. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    753
    "Discount" may have been the wrong word, but what I meant is that MSV units in PanO are affordable and plentiful, at the cost of Smoke. PanO has MSV2 as cheap as 24pts and that's a really mediocre troop. While technically Yu Jing has even cheaper Spitfire MSV2, PanO's options are much more varied in that regard.
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    I think the fact that MSV2 options are so varied is a strength. YJ only has 3 units with MSV2 -- one is a cheap remote, one is a 25-30 point LI, and one is a super elite HI who costs 60 points. PanO has 5 different options between 25 and 40 points, as well as an elite MSV3. I think Aleph has a slightly better range of options for MSV, but PanO is a very close second.
     
    Kahlain likes this.
  15. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    887
    Erm. Let's see Vanilla Pano. We have the Black Friar, Nisse, Kamau, Order sergeant w Spitfire, Konstantin.
    Let's ignore the OS , which comes with SWC cost of 2 for a Spitfire on an LI, which is clearly insane (usually 1 like on regular, Hexa comes for 1.5, likely because of the TO camo, REMs come for 1, MI usually 1.5, HI 2).

    Konstantinos is nice, really expensive, only has a combi rifle and an assault pistol, really fragile. But has infiltration and specialist operative. It's good if you can deploy it next to a TO camo marker, and start the game, then you can Discover + shoot it, and likely kill it in an order, otherwise you are really likely to loose those 34 points (the price of a Nisse MSR actually). Way too expensive and fragile in my opinion, but it would be good to have something similar for a decent point cost.

    The rest of the options are a bit reduntant, not much variation there. For MSR likely the Nisse is the best option here, ARM3, Mimetism, MSV2 and an MSR. Kamau comes with -2ARM for 2 less points, I'd gladly pay that, Friar comes without Mimetism and -1ARM for 4 less points and a Nanopulser. Mimetism is big for winning the shooting game, so I'd rather take the Nisse over the MSR Friar as well.

    So considering MSR, in my opinion Nisse beats both Kamau and the Friar. Kamau doesn't have any other MSV2 options (though I think the HMG one for 1SWC and with Mimetism is a really interesting one).

    That leaves us with the multi rifle Friar without the Mimetism, with Albedo, Biometric visor 1, Nanopulser, drop bears, -1ARM, 28 pts. Nice option, though MOV 4-2 of an MI doesn't combo well with the range of multi rifle.

    In NCA the MSV2 Spitfire Deva cost nearly as much a Nisse, without Mimetism (this is a big one), with Nanopulser and No wound (also a big one), -1 ARM, -1BS, for nearly the price of a HMG/MSR Nisse.

    In MO the MSV2 Spitfire sergeant is non linkable for some reason, and in my opinion that's just stupid. #Panocanthavenicethings

    The sad thing is, the most interesting tool we can get here is the mimetism. #hightechfaction #bestshooters #+1BSbeatseverything #hoponthewhinetrain

    For MSV3 we have the Aquilla guard, for 62 points you get the HMG one. Top HI as top HIs go, but unless the opponent has a lot of camo, or really powerful camo/ODD units, you just spent a lot of points on an MSV3. Also for camo hunting there's the Sensor + sniffer net option. Maybe I'd rather spend the extra 6 points for a Swiss guard, as TO camo is useful in a lot more situations than MSV3.

    So my point is, that in Vanilla Pano the MSV2 options are the Nisse (with whatever loadout you like), the MULTI-rifle Black friar, and that's it. The rest is either redundant or too expensive. I really don't see the variation here.
     
    eciu, gregmurdock and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  16. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    753
    Aquilla is mainly good for bullying Ariadna. It is true that Nisse outshines pretty much every other MSV troop in PanO and they're one of the reasons I stay with vanilla. And probably will until Svalarheima Winter Force comes out. But the redundancy gives you options, even if it's just 2pts shaved off by taking a Kamau instead of Nisse.

    Black Friar IMO has a different role to Nisse, I use him to deter infiltrators from getting into my DZ and have something that can ARO through Smoke without the enemy MSV troop being able to target him. Even at bad ranges it's still a free Normal shot.
     
  17. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    If only the damn BF Sniper had Albedo to make him compete with the Nisse, Konstantinos wasn't bloated to his neck with garbage or the damn Aquila had a secondary weapon/Skill to make him compete with the Swiss...
    ... but yeah
     
    Zsolt likes this.
  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,002
    Likes Received:
    4,661
    Which is amazing for all those non-PanO people asking why apparently noone is playing vanilla PanO ;P (or why it is considered bad/dull idea).
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  19. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    887
    I only play vanilla pano. Actually just branching out to Tohaa because
    Tohaa >>>
    Nice things >>>
    <<<< Pano
     
    AdmiralJCJF and eciu like this.
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,002
    Likes Received:
    4,661
    You want buy some Tohaa ?;P
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation