Hi there guys Been playing CA for a while now and I've always made sure to take a hacker or Tag unit so I can bring Unidrons as that fulfills the REM need and the G:Autotool at the same time. I was just building on infinity army though I'd only added an Anethamatics LT and some Unidrons, which only fulfills the G:Mnemonica need for the G:Autotool but it was ticked as OK. Adding a Q-Drone made it illegal though as I'd expect. Does the G:Autotool rule negate the REM rule? I can't find anywhere that it does but otherwise this doesn't make sense to me.
Welcome to the forum! Yes. The bit you're looking for in G:Autotool is the first Effects bullet: This Special Skill is equivalent to G: Remote Presence, but additionally requires that the army field at least one trooper with G: Mnemonica, or Hacker, or a TAG, in order to field the user. So Remotes require you to take a Hacker or TAG, but if they have G: Autotool then you're required to take a Hacker or TAG, or a trooper with G: Mnemonica.
Oh I see so it's technically not the REM troop class that means you must take a Hacker/TAG, it's the G:remote presence rule which REMs have, that get's added to G:Autotool! I see now. Thanks ijw :)
No, it's the REM troop class, there's no restriction in G: Remote Presence! There are a few non-REM troops that have :G Remote Presence which aren't restricted, because they're not REMs.
Ohok. So why do Unidrons not need a Hacker or TAG to be included? They are after all REM troop class and don't REMs always need one or the other, regardless of the G:autotool and G:remote presence?
Certain skills override the normal REM requirements, these include G: Autotool, G: Servant, G: Synchronised, G: Marionette.
To quote IJW from earlier in the thread: This Special Skill is equivalent to G: Remote Presence, but additionally requires that the army field at least one trooper with G: Mnemonica, or Hacker, or a TAG, in order to field the user.
Yeah, ok, but doesn't the rule for the REM troop type also have the rule which reuires you to take a TAG or hacker, where does it say that G:Autotool supercedes this rule? To try and be clearer, first am I correct in thinking the Troop type REM requires you to take a Hacker or TAG (As that's what the rules wiki says)? The G:Autotool rule is equivilant to G:remote presence but that is an entirely seperate rule to the troop type designation of REM isn't it? Where does it say that ay level of Ghost replaces any rules given by your troop type? That's where I'm stuck, I presume Unidrons still get -3 dodge as they are REM but are not bound by the requiremnt for a Hacker/TAG laid out by the REM troop type.
REMS require you to include a Hacker or TAG. G: Autotool expands this list to include troopers with G: Mnemonica, as per the first Effects bullet for Autotool.
Specific overrides general REMs need a hacker or TAG REMs with G: Autotool need a Hacker, TAG, or G: Mnemonica, otherwise the quoted part of the rule would be pointless.
I realise I seem like I'm being difficult, I'm not arguing and I believe you are all correct, I'm just trying to wrap my head around why. I assumed the troop class and the ghost special rule were two entirely different rule elements so wouldn't override each other, one is a special skill and the other a troop classification. neither mentions the other in it's wording so I can't see why Autotool replaces REM, even if special rules beat general that's only in conflicts isn't it? technically these could both be applied so there's no conflict. I know it does work the way you say, it must, I just can't see why and it's bugging me way more than it should.
I think i see why you're confused. B is like A, A requires x1 OR x2 to use. But B "additionally" requires x1 OR x2 OR x3 to use. The set A is a subset of B. And since g autotool and rem are separate, a REM with g:autotool belongs to both set A and B, it stands to reason both set A and B must be satisfied - ie if you only have x3 then you have not satisfied SetA requirements. If you have x1 OR x2 then you have satisfied A and B. That's how it's written anyway. The word "overrides" or "changes" is not used. "Additionally" is used. Don't worry about the way it's written. IJW won't lead you astray. :P
I understand your confusion; just pretend the G: Autotool rule says "instead" in place of "additionally".
Yes exactly! I'm at least glad I'm not going nuts. Sounds like I have nothing to worry about anyway, thanks for helping guys.
I'd advocate that it really should be two different bullet points. One saying that it is functionally equivalent to G:RP and another that says: Additionally, a trooper with G:Autotool can be fielded if the army fields at least one trooper with the G:Mneumonica skill instead of either a Hacker or TAG. The way it's written now implies (as the OP found) that the restriction on fielding one has to do with G:RP.
While that would make it completely unambiguous, I feel that separating out the bullet points makes that modification implied.
I agree your suggestion would be a better implication than what currently exists. But I'm sure there would still be some confusion or questions regardless of who's suggested change were used. :P if a question can get asked, it will get asked haha
