I've tried to find other threads on the subject but I probably have just missed them so please point me in the right direction. My question is this: A Bounty Hunter is around the corner from a Shaolin. No LoF yet. The Bounty Hunter uses their first move to go in to base contact with the Shaolin. The Bounty Hunter will be in full view of the Shaolin when she rounds the corner. The Bounty Hunter will choose to CC attack. Can the Shaolin declare a shoot with his chain rifle? I'd say no, but I'm interested in how people see this. If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state.
Your quoted bullet point from Stealth does not apply when Line of Fire is gained during the course of the movement. Yes, the Shaolin can ARO shoot.
A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them. Shaolin will get an ARO after the first Short Skill, allowing the Shaolin to pick between Chain Rifle or their silly-high CC value. Please see the underlined above, from Stealth I'm aware that lately there's been some rules-wrangling trying to get the last line in Stealth to read like a get-out-of-ARO-free card regardless of LOF, but I strongly disagree that this is even remotely a valid reading of the rules.
Why does it not apply? Where does it say that? I did not say it was a good choice to the Bounty Hunter to do this ;) OK. I do see your point and I did come here to hear the opinions of people who are better at reading the rules than me. But I definitely see how they can read it as that. "declares" with "outside of LoF" being the operating words in that sentence :) But thank you both for your quick replies :)
I think that was mostly confusion on who was saying what. You and I ended up agreeing by the end of that last thread.
Declaring Move includes specifying the path of movement, e.g: "My Trooper uses Move to go to this point via this path" Should this declared skill bring your Trooper into LoF, Stealth will not work.
As per Mahtamori's reply, it's in the earlier Effects bullet point of Stealth, the bullet points aren't independent: A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them. My emphasis.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence Declaration of first/second skill includes movement Also the blue box and examples for the Move skill refer to declared movement. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Move
Frankly, it would be much better if this was made more clear in the future. Sometimes bullet points do convey independent (more or less) abilities of the rule user. But this one at least makes sense.
A related question: if a trooper with Stealth and Super-Jump uses Jump as a Short Skill and enters enemy's ZoC out of his LoF - does he generate AROs? Jump has the Movement label, but it is originally an Entire Order.
First line in Super-Jump states that it changes Jump to a Short Movement Skill. Stealth requires Cautious Movement or a Short Movement Skill to function. Yes, a Shikami can Stealth-Jump :)
From Super-Jump: This Special Skill alters the user's Jump Skill from an Entire Order Skill to a Short Movement Skill. So the trooper is explicitly declaring a Short Movement Skill as required by Stealth.
Screw Shikami. We have MOV 6-4 and 6-6 S5 monstrosities that can jump over a small house, land right behind you and gently hug you without making a noise; or you noticing anything of that at all, for that matter.
I don't know which one the 6-6 is, but on a scale of 1 to "Oh shit someone unlocked the nuclear arsenal and gave the button to a toddler", only the Samaritan is more scary than the Shikami from the ones I can find and only the Seraph hits that uncomfortable level of an Alien biomorph breathing down your neck. Duroc and Mr Mansuri are just not deadly enough to offset the Shikami's meld between Spiderman and an ICBM - but I guess Duroc and Mansuri are more likely to actually get there without first getting reprogrammed by a hacker to become a Mime in an Invisible Box.
@Mahtamori Well, it's less about being deadly and more about something the size of a small car flying over small building and landing two feet away in complete silence. Oh, and 6-6 things are Antipodes. Those have camo, so they can pull the same trick off. Granted, none of those things I've mentioned does that while wearing a set of freaking power armor :P
Don't forget the Ekdromoi. They're are one of the best AD troops, largely thanks to this particular rules interaction.
6-4 is Mc Murrough : compared to the shikami you get the same CC, MA, weapon ammo (AP/DA) and W but better move, PH and armor plus smoke grenade (+ he is a huge space werewolf in nice looking amor). Maybe a touch less lethal than the samaritan but nor by much
