I know how this worked in N3, I just can't find it in the rules in N4. Model A looks around a corner to see models B and C . Model B decides to shoot at model a while model C throws smoke in a way that would cover both model B and C. Model A shoots one shot on each. Will the smoke be able to stop both shots from model A? I assume the FtF-roll rulles will be relevant here where "Important: For actions to be resolved with a Face to Face Roll, both Troopers must affect each other directly." But then the Smoke-rules seem to override that and not tell me that if only affects the model throwing the smoke "Performing an Attack with a weapon with Smoke Ammunition allows the user to make a Face to Face Roll against all enemy Attacks that require a Roll and LoF, and whose LoF passes through the Zero Visibility Zone generated by the Smoke Template." Thanks in advance! (Similar scenario that I would assume works the same way: A fire team activates. Models A and B are in the team, model A is the fire team leader. Model C (enemy model) will gain LoF to model B during the action and decides to shoot. But model A throws an interposing smoke grenade)
It hasn't changed much compared to N3. As you note yourself, the basic rule for Face to Face will apply. Both troopers have to be using actions that cause face to face. Smoke only removes the requirement to directly affect the enemy for the smoke user.
How to I know this from the word of the text? Because from what I've gathered specific rules trump general rules and the specific rules just says that it will be ftf with anything that passes through the zone?
And thanks that you both answered the question so expediently, I just need something more to bring home to the group :)
I'm not a believer in that specific versus general exists, and that if it were to exist it would cause more arguments than solve. It follows from reasoning. The effects of smoke allows the user to perform a face to face roll. This does not remove the criteria from others to also make actions that cause face to face rolls. As in; since the smoke user isn't attacked, there is nothing to face to face against. Since the rulebook is slim on negative examples, which is what you're looking for, the best analogy I can offer is a template attack. P.s. the absolutely most you can hope for, mechanically, if C were to be a face to face A for C's smoke to have a harder time landing. The face to face between A and B won't be affected because C is neither A nor B and the face to face between A and C is not the face to face between A and B. But, again, the interaction between A and C does not fulfil the criteria to be a face to face roll because A isn't taking an action that can face to face C.
I can see this reasoning. However the smoke user in the (first) example is also being attacked. But OK, I assume this is as clear an answer as there will be, thank you :)
From the effects: Performing an Attack with a weapon with Smoke Ammunition allows the user to make a Face to Face Roll against all enemy Attacks that require a Roll and LoF, and whose LoF passes through the Zero Visibility Zone generated by the Smoke Template. How are you even supposed to mess with FtF rolls between two other models?
@kendofarfar just ignore tox. Your question is reasonable - the wording is confusing and a new player shouldn't be expected to know the ins and outs. You're quite right to ask here. As @Mahtamori said, face to face rolls are always a direct competition between two models acting against each other. So the Smoke rule should be read as "against all enemy attacks against the smoke user that require a roll etc." So for example if three models shoot at my Fiday and she throws smoke to block all the shots, her face-to-face roll is against all three attacks.
i got a smoke question/clarification needed (posing here rather than make a similar thread). i just want to understand the mechanics better. came up in the tournament today: yojimbo advances which a riot girl msv1 sees riot girl ARO's shoot yojimbo throws smoke an grenade 1" in front of his bike in retaliation i understand the msv1 can still see him in the smoke so any successive aro's can still happen but is it a face-2-face as the smoke ammo rule states or straight roll?
it just NORMAL rolls as stated in a MSV description: Troopers equipped with this piece of Equipment do not make Face to Face Rolls against weapons using Smoke Ammunition.
