well, you compared to Hospitalares and ava..... and there is no link in vainilla, so yea, like solos they are trash the discusion was that it was much less point efficient that the HMG Zuyong with TA, but if you want to take the discusion to vainilla i was game, no problem
Thats an unfair comparison for the Orc. The proper comparison is the Shang Ji, the real basic HI of Yu Jing. And just like the Orc, most players shy away from using the Shang Ji. The Zuyong is a discount Hi, and like all discounted HI it makes sacrifices in stats or weapon loadout to be cheaper. Pretty much all the factions with discount HI find them popular to use. Tactical awareness puts the Zu Yong over the top as probably the best discounted HI in the game. That said, it makes it 38 points which is a bit expensive and it only has PH 12.
We didnt got super special HI in a sectorial that was all about being commando and not depending on HI solos, so we got the regular expencive one and availability to link so it can punch abobe his weight (capability, not points) and we choose him at times instead of pure Kamau, whats the problem? Its a design choice and a interesting one, but that doesn't change that the Orc is expensive for what it brings by itself or that there are much more optimized "plain" HI. It´s not something to fight about dude. Look how much fight there was "terrible stuff in IA" that turn out awesome, or how much wining about the Montesa change.... that turned out more than ok So yea, we have different opinions and that's fine, so actually do leave it at that
Having run the numbers I'm now considering the FB as the first pick to join the Fireteam with the HMG coming along if I fancy a second heavy weapon ORC (unlikely as the Kamau sniper is so good). At some point I'm going to have to run the numbers for Kamau MSR vs HMG, the MSR isn't quite as good ammo as the FB but that MSV2 is going to swing the numbers in a big way vs anything with visual mods.
I just like the tighter probability curve the greater number of dice give you. At least for my primary gunfighter. But im totally going to be trying the fuerbach to get a feel for it
I don't understand what the argument was about in the first place? That the Zu Yong is better than an Orc? Well, duh. Its probably the best discount HI in the game. That doesn't mean an Orc is useless. I like the Fuerbach for ARO. It has EXP ammo. Thats awesome in a link. And its on a two wound HI that can be healed by a Doc. Awesome.
Yeah, the flexibility of the FB is really neat, it's a big scary multi-wound ARO that can also tear through most things in the Active. Whilst it's not always the best choice it's rarely going to be a bad choice.
The Feueruururbach has a very nasty ARO too. Even if you've got, I dunno, a TO Camo Proxy Sniper. You're on 2 shots on 13s vs 2 shots on 11s, that's not great and if it was a HMG well I can soak a hit, but those EXP shells? You hit you dead, son.
What's everyone's experience with deploying Helots as Decoy? I'm starting to figure out the placement in order to evoke maximum paranoia-- and to make it really painful to try to step out and shoot them all since I have visible ARO watching their lanes as well. I can tell there will be times where it will be really beneficial to have Limited Camo instead, and I've been bringing max Helots, putting out the 6 Decoys and then having one under Camo as a neurocinetics roadblock. Also Croc Men in Suppressive starting on the middle line in cover feels so stupid, I love it.
Was just now hearing White Noise and @barakiel was explaining this, here is the link http://directory.libsyn.com/episode...tHDBbfhH9B59VDJpAxhRwb94G_lDjwD9b8JS9wn23FwoU side note, @barakiel great program dude, keep up the great work the part of the Kamau HMG was exactly what happen to me last tournament with the Cutter calling attention and the Kamau hitting the flank, its amazing bang for the buck
I think that's the way to do it. Decoy is amazing for overloading your opponent with possibilities. I've gotten a good number of 2 v 1 ARO situations just because an opponent can't adequately track all the areas those Decoys can cover. I think the Limited Camo is a great option too... If Decoy didn't exist, I'd certainly be very pleased to have Limited Camo. @Make PanO Great Again :P Thanks for linking the episode. All the credit should go to the White Noise crew... They do all the work. I've a few people reach out about how much they like the lone Kamau HMG gunner, either using it themselves, or looking forward to trying it out.
Im loving decoy, you just saturate the opponents options with too much information that they dont know and it limits their responce. When you deploy a camo token your opponent will know everything about it such as its lof what it can see and probably what it is. With decoys they are never sure if they can ignore that marker or not. That being said, you cant move with decoy, if you want to use those regular orders to put the helots in positions where they can do more work/damage them lmtd camo is absolutely the way to go as they can use their irregular orders to reposition themselves
How are you guys finding the deployment of decoys? What kinda traps and lures are you doing? I assume you're not just sticking them all out in plain sight where any old TAG could hug the backline and blast them down with multiHMGs
Mostly looking to block LOF and advance that my other aros arent covering. In terms of choosing which is the real helot its about deciding to either support the aros i have or about having more lanes covered. Depends on who im playing and what they are taking i think
Yeah, writing a guideline for Decoy is a bit like writing a guideline for Hidden Deployment AROs. There are so many variables, it's really hard to take them all into account in an abstract way. Some thoughts: Cover the dead areas that your Core link can't see. A Kamau MSV2 sniper can't be everywhere at once, so use Helots to shore up these weak parts. Overwatch dense areas of the table. There are areas where the Sniper's potential is worst, and is also an area that favors warbands and chain rifle wielders... Natural targets for Helots. A Helot will gladly trade fire with a Galwegian or Kuang Shi to stop it reaching your deployment zone. Cover objectives. This is pretty basic, but if your Helot can force an enemy to lob smoke all the way up in a midfield, or even force a Specialist to waste one or two Orders trying to take down your Helot before it can push the button, this is a really great way to tax an opponent's order pool Watch the table edges, cover the dead zones inside and in front off your DZ. This may be obvious, but AD units are a big threat right now. Helots are good for plugging those holes, and they're on par with Burst 2 Flash Pulse Bots as far as their odds of taking down danger. Counter-deploy. If you know where all your opponent's big guns are... Just deploy the Helots away from them, in a place where they can make your opponent's template, shotgun and rifle models work harder to get past the Helot. If an opponent is going first, you'll want your Helots boosting your defense, so look for lanes that are unsupported by your opponent's big guns, and use the Helots to help cover those. A Helot isn't a great shot, but when it's in Cover vs a rifle in the -3 band, it's phenomenal. Link maneuver areas. Noone wants their link team to get hit by a Light Rocket Launcher. If you can arrange your Helots in a way that threaten a link team's advance, you can bet than no opponent will maneuver a link team within LoF of a decoy, which means you can often tax an opponent to either spend 6 Orders shooting 6 decoys, or spending Orders to drop a long chain of smoke grenades to cover that advance.
