Don't people have two lists today? Did it win the tournament? Did they always win? Is is skewing the meta? I'm just asking. Maybe i wanna abuse the Guided Missile Sh*t myself ... Blowing PanO of the table and such things. Instead of just being butchered and trying to do the objectives,
Yes, Yes, Of course not, Yes. Something doesn't have to "always win" to be overpowered. But the discussion of whether or not Guided Missiles are OP is only tangential to the discussion of whether Jazz is OP. And the discussion of whether or not Jazz is OP is tangential to whether Corregidor is OP. And the discussion of whether or not Corregidor is OP is tangential to whether the Gator is OP. So let's bring the conversation back to the topic at hand, yeah?
Meta is so subjective, terrain, local lists, flavor of play, faction representation all play such a big role in shaping the meta it is not a good indicator. For example by just having a high density table, all DTW and CC specialists are elevated and all long range weapons are diminished.
Go google any of Lobo0705's lists. It's basically what you're talking about. Though you still need to know how to play it, but there are basically no reliable counters if you know what you're doing.
Except Guided. Pandas and Pitchers get better on denser tables because they're easier to get into position.
No. Certain players and lists consistently top tables. Some things are just better than others. Your meta, as you describe it, can simply not compete with the kind of people who are winning tournaments people travel to or large international TTS tournaments. The other thing about hacking is that when tables get to a certain degree of density, it becomes overpowered and stifling. Morans on unassailable rooftops are already a big enough problem.
I do not disagree, you reinforce my point, terrain density is such a big meta shaper and that makes meta so diverse.
You misunderstand my first point then. Certain lists do fine on dense or sparse tables - these are the lists that are all around good. Nomad guided missile setups with a Szalamandra (or now a Gator) do fine on any table, they're just more powerful than the rest. And that's part of why the Gator wasn't a good idea, Corregidor doesn't give up enough in other areas to deserve a TAG like this. As people earlier in the thread said, it comes off like a 13yo's first attempt at a TAG - someone gets upset they got outplayed and tied down by a warband in CC, so they give it NBW and CC attack -3 to make up for their bad play. Nevermind that Nomads are supposed to be using shitty last-gen TAGs compared to PanO and O-12 or even Yu Jing - they need the best toys NOW so that Corregidor players can feel protagonized, I guess? But it seems from this thread that there are a decent amount of even Nomad players who aren't having it.
Oh, Lobo's a good player, don't get me wrong, but he's aided by noninteractive mechanics which means he can kill any model on the board pretty much at will How do you know he's playing "almost everything" if you can't find the lists?
Welp, apologies for my part in derailing this thread! But i do think the question of how the gator synergises with the faction's exceptional engineering and hacking game is a good one.
I found some batreps, with Starmada, Kosmoflot, Starco and so on. Some nomads as well, just from the other guys perspective and I couldn't find the nomads list in the video from scrolling through. Just the enemies list. It's not that "Lobo0705" doesn't score any hits, just no Nomads Lists.
And yeah Spitfire, we're not making it up. Super strong when you get the hang of it, although it took a small hit with mixed fireteam rules.
The issue is that everyone else took the same hit - so it doesn't matter. And vanilla Nomads was the power faction anyway, though Corregidor is far and away the best sectorial for Nomads
Then where's the problem? If Vanilla was the problem, why does everybody complain about Corregidor. To get it back to topic: I don't know why Corregidor would need another TAG, but does the Gator really put Corregidor above everything else? And Corregidor always was the best Sektorial. At least since I am playing. Bakunin had expensive nuns and Tunguska didn't work for me as well. Corregidor was. Even with the old Wildcats. I still miss them.
I was writing a reply but I have to agree we are derailing the thread for no good reason, can the discussion start again in a new thread?
discussion about a nomad unit -> argument about nomads in general -> JAZZ! -> GML war, war never changes.
So...Gator. It's obviously a good TAG and great in CJC. Now is there a reason to take it over a Salamandra in Vanilla? Sally is cheaper but not by enough to make it and obvious choice. It has better extreme range, BTS, and more burst. Gator has less BTS but the -3 to be hacked, better defense against CC specialists with better CC weapons itself, better template weapon, mine dispenser, NCO option for only 2pts more. To me, I feel the NCO alone puts it over the edge. But all of the other things it has on top for only few points more makes it the better choice.
Depends, NCO is a bonus if you LT is either not an active LT or in a Duo, Generic army has cheaper/ more useful LTs than Corregidor, but Szalamander has a better weapon that suffers less penalties in been outranged, its flamer can be potentially more lethal and the Pilot can get out and deal with meddling hackers if it needs be.
