Not that it's the topic of this post, but I'll always throw out a bit of support for WarmaHordes. It is by far the best competitive ruleset I've ever played with, has outstanding inter-faction balance, and is regularly patched to ensure balance is maintained. There were some issues with their 3rd Edition rollout and incorporating public playtesting into their release cycle, but those kinks have been ironed out and the game is in the best state it has ever been. Their biggest downside, besides average-to-middling miniature quality, is their community. In 2nd Edition Warmachine marketed itself hard as the game with the good rules and competitive players, aiming at the Warhammer Fantasy diaspora who were constantly burned by bad balance and lack of updates (and their game being discontinued). Now, it's mostly only the competitive players that remain, and it's really hard to get new players into the scene when they need to pass the hurdle of being destroyed for their first 20+ games until the grasp it well enough to get a win without it being served to them.
Plus a bunch of reasons not connected to the game, like getting rid of Pressgangers and undercutting retailers. Surprisingly enough when you burn your most enthusiastic players/organisers and the people running many of the venues your game is played at, it alienates a lot of people.
Can't really argue with the retailer support thing, PP has always seemed to have a rough time with distribution, even before the recent global shipping crisis. They cut the Pressganger (Warmachine's equivalent of Warcors for those not aware) program at the same time MtG was coming under scrutiny for their tournament organizer program, presumably for the same reasons. From my experience though, those players continued to step up and support the game even after the program ended, but I suppose that's anecdotal and might not represent every community.
Having spent a bunch of time representing Infinity and trying to draw new players into the hobby, both as a warcor and a free agent, it’s definitely a challenging process to ramp people up in a comfortable way without making it feel like you’re playing “down” at them. The fact that WMH is somewhat combo-driven only increases that, because those game-winning tricks are baked into your lists, and you either pull them off or you don’t. Infinity has a bit more freedom to introduce rules and abilities gradually while still playing a fair game against a new player.
Agreed, Infinity is exceptionally easy to demo and hook someone with compared to Warmahordes. The tables and models are beautiful, and the game keeps them engaged through the whole process. If Warcrow borrows anything from Infinity, I hope it's some version of the "always your turn" mechanics that make Infinity stand out.
The bare minimum nowadays is alternate activations; I still love Warhammer Fantasy because it was my first wargame, but I don't think I can go back to the "It is my turn now and you just sit there looking at me doing things for half an hour. Maybe I'll let you roll a dozen die to see if your dudes survive".
Just saw in a Modiphius-Dedicated Discord that for the moment "War Crow The RPG" is not even considered in an hypothesis; could be a wise maneuver by Modiphius and CB alike to first wait for the establishment of solid foundations rather than launch in an unstable platform. . . And this for a totally different Rule Approach to an eventual hypothethical Roleplaying Game of War-Crow as totally different from the Rules of the Infinity RPG (that, hailing from 2015-2016 shows to have venerable and steady rules). . . Also could there be some radical differences in the Mechanics of War-Crow that will also render an eventual "Infinity RPG" modding of Warcrow as a "Hack Of Infinity" rather impossible; I have read that the described "Token Mechanics" of Warcrow Wargame would be a major roadblock in this, but I don't think will be so relevant. . . Probably is too early to understand what Wargame Rules of Warcrow could be converted in whatever else. . . . . . . . Even if for a purely "Factions FLuff Background" a RPG Manual would have been extremely valuable; Modiphius ones are famed to be especially thorough and expanding immensely on known settings. . .
But the fact that is Modiphius to have produced the RPG of Infinity (and still produce a lot of Manuals) make of this all a feature to be considered, even if someone does not like the complexity and complications of their chosen 2d20 Based Ruleset. . . In Your opinion what RPG Ruleset would have best to represent "Infinity" as a Roleplaying Game. . .?? Or be best for a future hypotethical, optional version of "War Crow RPG". . . . .???
It's not the complexity of the ruleset, it's the poor execution of the whole camping. How many books Modiphius still owe to the KS backers after... 7 years i think?
"How many books Modiphius still owe to the KS backers after... 7 years i think?" Almost 0, their KS is ending this year, last month from memory they released the last books in pdf format.
Finally. But after 7 years, i doubt the game generate interest... Most of the people i know that bought the game, waited to have the complete edition to play or made 3 sessions and abandon it to oblivion. And the art... Pretty cheap and ugly art, especially with the backers art. I was happy to dodge this.
Not even complexity, their rules just aren't well done, their editing is horrible, and there's just so many problems with any of the books I got of theirs (including non-Infinity) that I don't think I'd get stuff from them again. Their sourcebooks were good fluff, but it also felt like they just stretched out stuff, rather than being able to generate new material in many ways. I'd wait until the wargame is done, then see if there is an RPG add on that could be done easily enough on top of the basic wargame. The dungeoncrawler might have advancement rules anyway, so it might be easy enough from there.
It's also not like there's any shortage of fantasy or generic RPGs either, I find fantasy settings can be converted much more easily to different systems
If the Infinity RPG had been one step less complex, one step better laid out, or both, i think it would have had a lot more success. And I say this as someone who backed it and continues to buy the books i didn't back for...
Yes, the game exists at a very awkward spot where it’s more fiddly than story-driven RP folks want and not actually crunchy enough for people who like to win encounters with the power of math. I’m really not sure who the intended audience is.
