After my most recent games I have to concur that DTWs are a problem. I absolutely cannot expect CB to remove templates off of shotguns or even change template sizes. But maybe we can convince CB of something a little more moderate. A. DTW range: template, +6 BS roll, no mods, F2F roll. B. DTW range: template, +6 BS roll, no mods, normal rolls. C. DTW range: template, +6 BS roll, no mods, normal rolls except Dodge makes it a F2F roll. D. Only remove DTWs from shotguns. E. Make shotgun DTWs B1 no matter the mods or active turn or fireteam. F. Keep all DTWs as they are at the time this poll creation. G. Change Shotgun templates to +6 BS roll, no mods, F2F roll. H. Also, apologies if these arent perfect, these were the suggestion I could remember and thought might catch the most support. If really good suggestions are commented we can always add them to the poll later but hopefully we can get a good consensus and even have people change their votes if it means we can get CB to make a change sooner than later.
I'm torn with this. If I could I would just remove Teamplate Mode from the shotguns. But for the purpose of this voting, I'll go with C. It might be a little weird to implement rules-wise, but keeps the spirit of the original teamplate rules: you can go around shooting teamplates like a madman and if the oponent shoots back it will just have to tank the teamplate hit, or you can risk to dodge. Needing to hit with the Teamplate Attack makes it a little less powerful, but thanks to that +6 modifier you still have very generous chance to hit. The problem is that now succesfully dodging Teamplates becomes very, very dificult to achieve, because the target number for the one attacking with the teamplate will almost always be higher than the target number for the one dodging (while previously just rolling 1 was enought to dodge). And then we realize that we have, in fact, made Teamplates even more powerful than before. So... to sumarise, I voted C because it was the suggestion I disliked the less, but I don't think it would make Teamplates less powerful. Quite the oposite, it would make them more powerful as it would be harder to Dodge them. EDIT: Changed vote to D after that option appeared on the poll.
Number C is just rolling it back to how it worked in N3 and making it more powerful by ignoring mods. Honestly, I wouldn't move or change anything with how shotguns work right now. It's easy to understand, easy to work on the table and easy to explain to newcomers. It's pretty good. If there's a general consensus shotgun templates are too powerful, my suggestion would be lowering the DAM attribute by 1 for all of them. But I myself don't like this tbh.
Just make shotgun DTW B1 and it's way better. Now at least 2w units can't just die to active 8point Liberto if they fail 1 dodge.
so there are a few issues with this as a premise to gauge opinions: first off, there is no option for "they're fine as is / no change" second, an obscure poll in an obscure online forum with only a handful of active users isn't really gonna give you an accurate view on the community's opinion as a whole, you're just gonna end up "confirming" how a fairly closed small circle of people think online chatting about hypothetical changes is all well and good, but yeah, i'm not sure the poll really gives you any actual information
I agree. However, is am able to add suggestions with this method of pulling, and I'm encouraging people to compromise their vote later on if we can at least have an improvement in the game if a large enough consensus is met. Lastly, I encourage people like yourself to share the poll in other social media to help cast a larger net. Go and have a look at the poll options now.
I personally like the idea of +6 BS to hit with templates as FtF rolls. It would be great if we had two types of DTW: Projectile and Spray DTW. I think both Shotguns and Chain Rifles/Colts should not ignore cover, because they fire projectile-like ammo (shells, wires etc), that can bounce off the cover or block it in some way, OR just lower the Damage to reflect that. Use Burst Mode for High Damage and AP, or Template Mode to hit wide against multiple targets, sacrificing firepower. On the other hand, weapons like Flamers or Nanopulsers could ignore that. Pure heat and flames wrapping around, or nanobots flying toward the target around the corner. Spray all day, but your shots are not FtF. In game terms (and not trying to mess much with the current rules set): Spray DTW (Flamers, Nanopulsers, Zappers, Riotstoppers) - Autohit, - No Cover mods, - Add Continous Fire to Nanpulsers (as nanobots constantly try to chew through flesh) Projectile DTW (Shotguns, Chain rifles) - FtF rolls, +0, +3 or +6 BS (depending on playtests and overall balance), - Target gains Cover mods, - Burst 1
Different interactions don't even require new weapon types, just proper ammo effects. Fire (Continuous Damage, Ignores Cover, Burnt State (as mentioned in another thread, current overabundance of Mimetism really calls for Burnt making a comeback)), and Nanotech (BTS, Ignores Cover). And we could really see these ammo types on more weapons than just template ones.
Turning this into a poll option. Though, if it's ftf for shotgun dtw then maybe the damage should stay the same as before and just allow Shotguns and chain guns to apply cover mods to arm. Let me know if you edit your post so I can change it above in the poll. I do like your ides alot. Also I assume auto hit is doable with a flat PH roll as normal.
Thanks, I am 100% behind "Allow Cover Mods against Shotgun/Chain Templates" thing. (Unless it's too much work rewritting the rules, then reducing Damage by 2-3 would still be ok) Of course modifiers for FtF rolls may be suspected to playtests (if any XD), so in the end I'd be still ok if it was either +0, +3 or +6 BS if the balance needed it. Edited my previous post.
I was trying to consider if you catch someone out of cover like a Shotgun against ARM 6... if kept at damage 13, then at least people can try and flank tanks like that.
The thing that big armor should do is be impervious or near impervious to very low damage attacks. I'm fine with ARM 6 models tanking light shotgun sprays all day every day. I'd even be fine with a 0% damage chance.
