Why are we talking about the MSV3 profiles still? We have concluded, as a community, that the only thing wrong with them is that the extra cost is a bit too high. Just like the extra CC tax on certain line troopers. It's really not worth bringing up in other factions' forums.
Again, given the various JSA models that we lost, what would you replace them with? Oniwaban, tough/important target killer - There's really no good replacement. The closest would be a Cike with an EM and DA or EXP CCW, but there's no superior infiltration or Impersonation to get really close to the target for free. AD might be an option, though I don't think Stealth would apply to the Arrival order. Domaru/Tanko, relatively inexpensive melee HI - Not sure what to do here, though the mix of Natural Born Warrior and Martial Arts intrigues me. A potential +6 to your CC score and +1 strength? Without having to turn it into a Normal Roll. Karakuri, tough specialists - not sure how many people used them in vanilla, but another specialist HI would be excellent. Doc/Engineer profiles? Shikami, tough highly mobile specialists - These guys can run across rooftops stupidly easily due to that 8" super jump. Not as good an assassin as the Oniwaban. Bikes - I'd really like a HI on a bike, or Total Immunity. Raiden, surprise attacker - The no-brainer choice was the HRL minelayer, the other profiles weren't particularly impressive. A model with limited camo plus Mimetism or Ambush Camo would be good. Ambush Camo with Minelayer would be hilarious. Keisotsu, cheap orders - No ideas for this, except maybe dropping Zanshi one point. Because BS11 Zanshi are NOT worth one point more than the BS12 Fusiliers or Aguaciles. Also, what sectorial would you put the replacement models in? Don't forget we are also supposed to be getting a new S5 HI, so either another Su Jian-type or a Taskmaster/ESWAT. An intriguing suggestion for a character Su Jian had Sapper and an HMG in the combat form, but dropped to an SMG in Mobility form.
I think the current idea, from Bostria's pointers about sending Guilang and Daofei to White Banner, points to IA being some sort of heavy assault group, while white Banner would be where all scouts and light cavalry go... Then you add some mixing and all done (I can imagine the Terracotta present on all sectorials, for example).
I think for IA, they need a slightly cheaper line trooper than the Zuyong - which to me means either they give them zhanshi (bleh) or add a new line troop for IA - either MI or HI, and I'm not sure how they'd make them useful+interesting. I guess it comes down to if they want to add a new grunt to YJ, or if they want to bend the existing selection - maybe if they did Zuyong profiles with SMG or something, it might get the price down.
Oniwaban - Just redesign Ninjas: SMG and Monofilament CCW being the basic profile. Domaru/Tanko - Doesn't need replacing. Karakuri - Doesn't need replacing. Shikami - HI, Forward Deploy L2, Mimetism/Holo2, SMG/APistol, Full-Auto L2. Different but similar job, more brute force, cheaper. Bikes - Doesn't need replacing. Raiden - Medium low-cost infantry for IA. Less focus on the high BS, ARM and BTS, most on the role. Roughly speaking one of the profiles could be a statline similar to USAR Grunt with HRL or ML with (Limited) Camouflage that can't link. Estimated 16-17 points for LCamo and HRL+LSG. Keisotsu - I agree, Zhanshi should cost the same as Alguaciles. The alternative is to give them a 1-point equipment such as a Panzerfaust (to fit inside that rounding-error), and while they're at it remove the SWC cost from the LGL.
Why not? I mean, they were removed to open up design space, so CB obviously thinks there is something similar available. Also, I for one would very much like my melee monster HI back.
On replacing the Raiden, and this is a poorly thought-through idea where I haven't even attempted to come up with stats... the Invincible Army is all about the New Model, a new StateEmpire doctrine. We know there's another canonical Yu Jing modernization doctrine, that of supporting army forces with rapid-advancing Remotes. There'd be the Hacker-TAG 'tax', but for an HI-heavy list you're probably going to be taking some sort of hacker anyhow for defensive purposes. Could you have a Limited Camouflage REM with an HRL or ML? The profile itself could also provide a more varied set of Linkable cheap units to supplement Links and provide cheaper orders, thus avoiding needing to rely on a new MI or LI unit. Maybe its just me, but HI-backed-by-REMs seems more thematically Invincible Army than HI-backed-by-Zhanshi.
I love the idea of a SURPRISE! four-legged REM popping up to shoot a rocket in someone's face, but agreed on the pricing issue. Still, while not replacing the Karakuri *mechanically* you could imagine something roughly humanoid (and thus at a scale where buying a box nets you 4 not 2), representing a Yu Jing unit along the same aesthetic/Silhouette as a Garuda/Dakini/Karakuri, but with a very different battlefield role? Viewed from another angle, if you imagine the Raiden as camo fire support, deployed (as Yu Jing did with JSA units) into high-risk low-survivability situations, and the Ministry of Defense now needs to find something to fit into that role. Using REMs to preserve the lives of its troops is part of the new Yu Jing Remotes doctrine, if you've lost the soldiers whose lives you didn't consider of much value, a REM seems like the place youd turn.
Making space is an effect, not the reason. Important distinction. I just don't think Yu Jing is well served getting CC monsters along the lines of Domarumaki. There's interrsting stuff in hybrid designs like Hsien, Crane and Shaolin that I think is better served for White Banner. Essentially I'm not hostile to a HI that would give a Knight a run for their money, both on the shooting range and in melee, but the exclusive CC focus I don't think nor want to happen within Yu Jing - that's JSA's schtick. However, the OTHER aspect of the Haramaki would be interesting to see a replacement of. I'm talking about an extremely impetuous HI at around 23 points with BS 13 - but focused less on CC and more on shooting. Maybe CC similar to Hsien, carrying Skirmisher weapons. Let's say if the Karakuri and Raiden replacement got combined? Not something I'm personally attracted to since this sort of thing feels very Nomady - dishonest and needlessly complicated. Plus, it'd run a bit expensive (in points, much less expensive in $). The main charm of Raiden was the cost efficiency of the threat it presented. Which sort of pokes me a bit in the creative nerve. A Grunt-quality profile with camo, HRL and LSG is a bit too efficient compared to Ryoken 9. A Flammenspeer would be a fairly interesting compromise - limited ammo, but same function at a very compelling price.
I'd feel bad about leaning in on Nomads, cool-odd-REMs is their shtick, but then I look at the Kriza and change my mind ^_^.
I thought remotes were one of the Yu Jing specialties, what with the Ru Shi and Lu Duan being fantastic, and the fact that Imperial Service can take the greatest variety of remotes of all sectorial, along with the fact that they can take 3 TR bots, 2 Lu Duans, 2 Ru Shi, and a Garuda, no other faction has this many remotes. If you think about it, the Su Jian is ALSO a remote... its just the Heavy Infantry kind of remote. Hi, Sniper, AD, Holoprojector, MSV 2, TRHMG, Smart Missile, Heavy Infantry, Hacking... they do it all. Literally the only "themes" that aren't covered by YuJing remotes are Close Combat war band and Infiltrator.
I'm inclined to agree: Nomads have weird remotes, but Yu-Jing make use of more combat-leaning remotes. Even the Japanese used them via the Karakuri. PanO makes use of remote TAGS, and ALEPH makes more use of REMs as line troops: but YuJing are the guys that send in hordes of robots. And with no JSA cannon fodder any more, I'd expect YuJing to maybe get some new REMs or lean more towards using the existing ones.
Some sort of ODD or Mimetisim Heavy I'd like to see. I was just about to pick up the Shikami before the fallout. Maybe some new CC versions of Su Jian. Like: Heavy flame thrower+Boarding Shotgun, AP+DA CCW. I would like a biker again to replace the Aragoto. Something like a Mongol troop maybe. A heavy Combat Jump troop! A new TAG or new profiles for the Guijia. Has anyone heard of the Shooting Stars? I though I heard this was a new troop of some sort. I think YJ needs another Medium Infantry. Right now it's only Tiger Soldiers. Something that fills the gap between Zhanshi and Zuyong.
There are two Yu Jing Sectorials coming. There's definitely going to be new units that overlap with what was lost in JSA.
I don't think YJ needs any more Medium Infantry. Part of their fluff is the fact that YJ are the masters of Heavy Infantry, spending much of their military research into power armor after getting rekt by PanO in all out war. Medium Infantry are regular human powered infantry who have enough equipment they can't move quite as fast as LI, but don't have the power armored technology of HI (or the magically light weight materials of the Ariadna HI). I do think there should be something between the Zhanshi and the Zuyong, but maybe make it a 1/w heavy infantry. It should still be hackable and 4/4 movement, arm 2, BS 12, maybe visor lvl 1 or Mimetism or something, 20-25 points for a combi rifle. It should be trying to take the Bagh-Mari/wildcats role of things, but not a budget HI pain train (thats the Zuyong's and Wu Ming's jobs). Edit: actually, if they make a MI that is hackable or 4/4 movement, I could be OK with this. just state something about the fact that YJ has so much armor tech, even their MI have some good mobility.
