Er....as i posted, i have, at least for the forseeable future. Theres too many really good games around now for me to need to invest time or further money in one whose writers/guiding forces have done such a very bad job of managing a very major change to a big faction. But for me its 70% about the models/profiles, and only 30% lore reasons. But both were handled just...really poorly.
Second-class citizens at best, actually, if post-Uprising Japan is using the Edo-era social classes. Samurai are on top; then farmers (because without farmers, the nation would starve); Artisans are 3rd-class; while merchants, who produce nothing and merely carry goods from place to place like a servant are in 4th place; and at the very bottom are the Eta, those who do ritually-unclean things like make leather or certain dyes. Or handle dead bodies. To even visit an Eta village is to be unclean. Technically the Kuge are somewhere between the top of the Samurai and the actual Japanese Imperial Court nobles, who are even higher-class than the Samurai. I'm not sure how a modern economy would work with farmers, since we're down to about 4% of the population being needed to feed everyone else. Back when this class system was created, fully 80% of the population was directly involved in agriculture, Samurai were ~4% of the population, artisans were ~10%, and merchants made up ~5% of the population. There weren't many Eta, maybe 1% of the population.
That's pretty much my position too. I came back to Infinity looking to get playing a fun game with the faction and models I like (such as Domaru...) but what I found was a horrible mess. Like Extropian, I'm essentially out of the game. I'm also considering selling my stuff, because this whole thing has been immensely negative and CB has lost all of my previously stocked up faith.
Already sold all my JSA....i'm holding onto my vanilla YJ (which isnt too much tbh) for now just in case i come back when White Banner/IA land, but until then i'm out.
So let's see if I understand this right. JSA declarations have weight, Japanese non-combatants logs have weight and Japanese "government" declarations have weight. Yu Jing declarations of ANY kind have NO weight, because they are the big guy! That means disregarding 10 times (at least) more population, by the way, than the whole Japanese citizenship, since let's not forget that Kuraimori is but an island-continent on one of the two planets YJ have, but: I find hard to believe there were no non-Japanese YJ citizens on any of the war theaters we are talked about on the Uprising. I find hard to believe Japan's lifeblogging got out easier than, let's say, Candy Cloud's records. I find impossible to believe that there were no non-military logs or videos that shown JSA's atrocities or suicidal charges. Remember, where there are military there are civilians aswell, you don't use combat-trained doctors in rearguard positions, for example, nor do you have them ALL, all the time, on retainer. The problem with today's "virality" is that, following a simple script, you can convince people to share something, that tends to be on how a minority is being oppressed and even killed left and right... regardless of the truth behind it. More people means group thinking and peer pressure, and we all know how that works out most of the time. That was already discussed. The EI would get in, provide the Party a list of things that want done (namely, Trascendence Projects and a tithe of soldiers), leave some sort of overseer (probably an Aspect that would do little more than observe, because when you have absolute power you need not to exert it at all), and that's it. Going into Autharchy (that is, self-sufficient isolation) would be an option only if they think the CA is just what has been seen on Paradiso, and I doubt the Tohaa would have not disclosed that it's much bigger (just not to the true extent, that is), not to mention Prisioners of War and the intel that can be extracted from them While I find possible that most factions underestimate even the Tohaa claims about how much power does the CA have, I doubt Aleph has hidden her position... then again, YJ has demonstrated how it reverts to a headless chicken when faced against unforeseen situations... Change Farmers to Salariman... with the topmost of them being engineers and the like, while the most brilliant scientist (that is, those who produce better results) would be on top. Not Samurai-Class, though.
I'm just curious what you think of the following quote: "Any person with a Japanese surname, speaking Japanese or related to Japanese, and regardless of being a military or a civilian, is for us a dangerous individual and therefore we have to “pacify them”." [Reference: Treason mission 5] It seems clearly that this is targeting with the objective of killing all its inhabitants largely because they are Japanese. This takes it from just being a mass killing to an ethnic cleansing. This makes all of Yu Jing's actions lean on the "carpet bombing a city with the objective of killing its inhabitants" side of things. And the fact that these people have the Emperors approval, and get rewarded in stature for their actions here [reference: the CBL list] lead it to imply that they get away with this without any consequences.
Kind of. I still haven't cracked the plastic on my book (picked it up yesterday), but going by the worst that has been said regarding what's in it, I can still point fingers at one or two worse situations in the real world where the only heads rolling are those of innocent citizens. In either case, the beauty of creating an artificial tidal wave of refugees is that Yu Jing could probably sneak in both agents and double agents in the confusion that is both the refugee waves and the newly formed government that is guaranteed not to be up to scratch and full of holes for spies to sneak through. Mate, it's all about expectations, shifts in expectations and how CB is handling those expectations. That last part hasn't been very good, and is the biggest contributor to the ongoing shitstorms on the forums, even now when they seem to have gone quiet on the topic. It's not slavery. At no point, so far, have the Japanese been slaves. We'll see what Kuge does, but under Yu Jing they weren't slaves. Not even "of sorts". Modern economy has overthrown a few things, that's for sure. I'm fairly certain that farmers end up with the short straw and the service economy being the top of the non-Samurai rung. Naturally, being the owner of the labour conducted by the various industries is the place to be and the place to be a Samurai in, but for the commoners it'd likely be the relations and negotiations service providers who take the place of the Edo-era Japan's Farmers. You know, the merchant who negotiates the price or the specialist who designs a productive work environment or who acts as the go-between for high-value sales such as property. Farmers and sanitation workers probably at the bottom (of the people worth anything), with the latter being the well payed ones.
Yeah, the most telling line in the CBL fluff (which admittedly I hadn't read as closely as the Uprising) is this one: "However, all the actions of this body are approved by the Emperor, the only authority to which they are accountable. The knowledge of being backed by the Emperor reinforces in them a sense of impunity and of importance in their mission." It changes that line you cited from being a single voice able to be dismissed as a racist blowhard to probably pushing it over the line. There's a couple of issues though. First is the sources: it's Sabot! so hyperbole is to be expected. But yeah, it substantially makes the case for genocide in Kuromaira.
Yuandun isnt operating on the whole island. Only in one city, and it's not peaceful and quiet there. This city is in war mode with constant fighting going on in the streets and in the caves underneath. Every corner could hide an armed tatenokai member with explosives and the agents of the ISS are in constant danger. So from an ISS side of view it's not too far off to treat any japanese person that's wandering this place as a threat that must be neutralized. If you're a civilian, you better stay home and stay down until the fighting is over. There's no passage saying that the Service is walking from house to house killing families. If they wanted to kill all japanese they wouldve just bombed the place and not risk their personnel. That's no genocide imo, even less if you take into account that the whole purpose of the message most likely is to cause fear and weaken resistance, so it obviously is exaggerated for the media. But that's only my interpretation and what do I know. Gesendet von meinem SM-J500FN mit Tapatalk
Ask yourself this question: in 25-100 years time do you expect there will still be a distinct Japanese populace in Kuramoria culturally different from the rest of YJ?
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly but I'd say no? The state won't allow any japanese identity in their nation anymore I guess, but most japanese are gone already anyways. Who knows? Still I don't think using shoot on sight tactics in a theatre of war equals genocide, sry. I don't like what they do, just trying to make the best out of it :/ Edit: I would have preferred CB leaving out the aspect of civilians involved in the first place so we wouldn't have to discuss such things. Gesendet von meinem SM-J500FN mit Tapatalk
Not everyone in KuraiMori is Japanese: its just mostly Japanese. If they bomb the whole city to the ground they are going to lose out on all the infrastructure, kill their own loyal citizens, and suffer even more political blowback from O-12 / PanO [since YJ is powerless to stop Pan O]. Plus CB needs this to stay as a place of conflict so that players can still do the JSA VS YuJing conflict on their own tables.
I think this sums up this whole argument succinctly: some of us want to make due with what just happened in the fluff, others want to have the fluff changed so that we can make due with what just happened. But pretty much all of us don't like the line they crossed[Except for that one guy who was saying "this is the best thing ever!"]. Yu Jing being the "PanAsian Giant" was their main faction point up until now. All cultures of Asia were still there in the future and still respected. I hope they are not doubling down on the "Everyone is the same here!" Chinese stereotype perpetrated by The West. I have very low hopes since Bostria is going to conventions saying things like "How do we know this guy is evil? He's Chinese!" [with regard to the new guy in Aristeia!] I hope they move away from "Cultural War" and go back into "Political War."
The ISS were created on the authority of the emperor to carry out the law in his name. There's a cultural aspect where they believe/are convinced that their actions are the emperor's will. That statement isn't that yuanduan are sending proposals to the emperor and getting his rubber stamp to kill Japanese. They just believe, because they were created to carry out his will, and largely given free reign previously to do so. That their actions now are "sanctioned" by the emperor. A rough analogy might be how crusaders believed they were sanctioned by God because that's what the church told them. And they rationalised their decisions as such. I'm not wording that very well and it's different to the stupid 40k stuff before anyone starts making parallels. This style of story writing is classic in human history and what I see people doing are classic mistakes many people do when they read history; 1. Apply contemporary concepts or values to the events. "This is how it is now, so that term means X" 2. Assume what is being read is the whole story. The fact CB uses the whole "by sabot, your news channel" is a huge signal that what is currently being presented is from a certain bias. The yu Jing side of this story is likely to start coming out more. Right now, werew getting the story from Japanese and Pro-Japanese sources (which isn't surprising in the start of a story arc about Japanese). I don't think the uprising story is over (sorry for you guys who hate it already), and hope we might see some different angles very soon.
Yeah, a lot of this feels like baseless optimism. We've been hearing the same thing since we saw the "Enough" posters, "just wait and see". The next stage of the Uprising narrative is the narrative event: Treason. This event is specifically about the atrocities of the Yuandun, aka the butchers of Motubishima. I sincerely doubt we'll hear of the heroic ISS pacifying the new rebellion in a peaceful and reasonable manner. In the event, factions can either ally with the rebellious freedom fighters or the fascists with genocidal tendancies (or aliens). Also, how is this new conflict not causing all out war?! I thought JSA had its own nation now. Literally all the evidence we've recieved so far suggests that it would be very naive to think Yu Jing will be redeemed in any meaningful way before the Invincible Army is released next year.
But interruptor is a master storyteller and you will NOT believe what happens NEXT!!!!!!!1!one! Just wait and see (tm) and your expectations will be subverted. Because as we all know, subverting your expectations is an achievment in and of itself. Or some shit.
And this sounds like baseless cynicism. The special tournament pack is about the yuanduan yes. Which everyone has happily assigned to represent the entirety of yu jing now. Its also about the events of the uprising, as in the narrative event is set during what we have read about in the Uprising book. Do you really think there won't be any more narrative that emerges from that? Enough was a teaser. Why do you feel like everything has to happen on a compressed timeframe? We KNOW the campaign is based on dawn and the kurage station. Is that not a relevant location of the uprising? Will Yu Jing not be involved in that? Do you know how yu jings story will play out there? (you will tell me yes) I think we don't, and there has been some very well considered posts by others here on where that could go. Literally all the evidence is subjective and while I can see you conclusions, you're not winning me over trying to talk down to me like you're somehow experiencing this on a more transcendent level Look, I know you're bitter and the current events have affected you more than some. But at this point, you're being petulant.
Yes and that would be logical and in-character. Instead, O-12, PanO, and the rest of the Sphere are going to prop up the new Japanese state, treat them like they're angels, and we're supposed to go along with it and think to same things. We're not supposed to put two and two together with respect to the JSA using civilians as human shields over the course of the rebellion; we're supposed to think that every Japanese man, woman, and child was a willing and enthusiastic supporter of the rebellion (and that simultaneously Yu Jing is monstrous for treating them like combatants). We're not supposed to think about the in-setting geopolitical ramifications of what's going on, like how Yu Jing should have treated PanO's interdiction of their territorial waters and an act of war (which it was). We're instead supposed to unironically consider the JSA heroes, and throw our money at this new release. And then, whenever they release IA, they'll switch to treating Yu Jing as unironically heroic in the clumsiest way possible to get us to buy that, with no explanation or reckoning for the war crimes/genocide Yu Jing is portrayed as committing here for the edge factor. That is, if they even decide they're going to continue with Yu Jing - it's possible that they've decided that there's only enough room for one East Asian faction in Infinity, and that the Japanese one sells more than the Chinese one.
That's because there aren't any other Yu Jing voices (or even Chinese) in the story. Yu Jing's characterization is being sacrificed to make JSA look good in a very clumsy way.
