Immobilised Impetuous Models?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Sletchman, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. Dannyboy89

    Dannyboy89 Member

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    Any reason?
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Because you're adding an IF/THEN clause that simply doesn't exist in the rules.
     
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  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Please have a look at the Order Expenditure Sequence: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence

    The Impetuous Order will be spent before you even get to declaring any Skill:

    'Each time the Active Player decides to use an Order (of whatever type) to activate a trooper, follow these steps:
    1. Activation: The Active Player declares which trooper will activate.
    2. Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper.
    3. Declaration of the First Skill: The Active Player declares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement.
    4. ...'
    By the time you find out that a valid Skill declaration isn't possible, the trooper has been activated and the Order spent.
     
  4. Dannyboy89

    Dannyboy89 Member

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    I never said u were wrong about the fact that cancelling the impetuous order is entirely voluntary. However if you do not it is your right. But ppl can accuse you of cheating. However if u follow it according to my ruling no one can do so.
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    How could there be an accusation of cheating?
     
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Except if you're Isolated then you can't. The trooper "cannot receive Orders from their Order Pool." To "cancel one Impetuous Order of an Extremely Impetuous trooper by expending one Regular Order from that Order Pool". An Isolated trooper does not have access to any Orders other than their own Irregular order (which, for all practical purposes, can't be turned Regular). So your game breaking situation still eventuates, just in a slightly more niche situation. (If you disagree with those rules interactions the same can be achieved by an Irregular Extremely Impetuous trooper in their own order group, and the player has expended all their command tokens.)

    You need an interpretation that allows the game to continue functioning even if you can't restrain the IMM Extremely Impetuous trooper.

    Consequently, it's easier by far to attempt to fulfill the rules as far as possible until prevented by an in game effect. So, as per IJW's post, you Activate the trooper and then work out that you can't actually make any legal declarations and you take all the AROs to the face.
     
    #26 inane.imp, Apr 30, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
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  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    going down a path that will lead to breaking the game while following the rule is not cheating. It is better to simply find a way to resolve it. Especially as you could be in a situation where you cannot cancel the order. then there is no alternative to breaking the game so we may as well discuss how to resolve it.

    I agree with IJW solution : you spend the order to activate (steps 1 and 2), then when you reach the point you have no skill that match the restricted table you skip over that part, but you still eat the ARO for being activated.
     
    #27 Robock, Apr 30, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
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  8. Dannyboy89

    Dannyboy89 Member

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    Because you are purposefully knowing that you are committing an illegal impetuous move when there is an optional alternative to cancel.
    This is entirely ignoring the IMM-2 marker on the table next to the trooper before you make a decision on whether or not to activate the order right?

    Did u sacrifice a chicken to the Dice Gods?
     
  9. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    To know how I got into that mess ? No need, WB are excellent chickens to send against mines, koala and mad traps; and command token are spent fast on stuff like coordinated movement and coordinated supp fire ;)
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    That's 'following the rules', not 'cheating'.
     
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  11. TAKEZO

    TAKEZO Well-Known Member

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    Every things here are perfectly covered by the rules:

    Idle, bullet point 4:

    The trooper is also considered to perform an Idle when he has declared a Skill not allowed by the rules. In such situation, the ammunition of Disposable weapons or pieces of Equipment is spent, too.

    So, step 1: impetous says you must declare a move.
    step 2: Imm says you are not allowed to declare move
    Step, 3: bullet point 4 is triggered, you now have to perform an Idle.
    Step 4: ARO is generated!
     
  12. Dannyboy89

    Dannyboy89 Member

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    This. Is very true. I can totally get behind this.
    Takezo is correct.
    So when I perform an illegal move it's not considered cheating?
    In any case I think @TAKEZO has pointed out that unperformable actions are considered as an idle.
     
  13. Dannyboy89

    Dannyboy89 Member

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    Are u sure they will be pleased? I must try this instead one day. When the Dice Gods demand their dues it would be most heinous to deny them. I once did so and in my game I failed all rolls. Now when they demand blood I give them blood XD
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    This was already pointed out in post #7. :-(
     
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  15. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Cool, I stand corrected!
     
  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    The only way to not provoke ARO is to cancel the impetus order, otherwise the model will idle and generate ARO.
     
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