Yet another thread about motorcycles

There's two reasons why you don't need to worry about possibly over-thinking things. Firstly, there're so many people all over the world under-thinking things that you could never take up all the slack in the global shortfall. And secondly, that the reason you'd be thinking about it at all is that you're smart enough to notice that no-one has yet presented a solution that doesn't require further thought.

So you'll hear their answer and think to yourself "Yeah, but what about this or that situation?" and hence we usually hear the over-thinking charge from smart people who're happy with a solution because it put their own troubled mind at rest, but aren't smart enough to realize that it didn't solve all the problems they themselves hadn't thought of or weren't worried about.

So if you keep asking a question until you're yourself entirely happy with the answer, you'll probably annoy the people that thought the answers were good enough, but also probably be doing a great service to everyone else, including yourself. George Bernard Shaw had a thing or two to say about this whole issue, but time and attention spans are against us.

TL;DR unless you've simply overlooked a sufficient answer that already exists, you are almost certainly not overthinking a problem

 

I believe the answer depends on players having had the foresight to discuss and agree these sorts of things beforehand and getting caught out if they didn't. If there's no hard rule, maybe someone can offer a workable solution anyway.

(Being mindful of my own persistent lack of foresight in games, I'm always very interested in coming up with default resolutions - and usually being told that I'm overthinking the problem ... )

 

If you use a marker, no lof. If its a model then it blocks lof. Odd but that's how objectives works.

 

Did you literally just double post without answering the question and then link to your first post?

That's possibly the best +1ing I've ever seen. GG WP.

 

Not sure if said with humor or malice, but he posted a way to just say to a person who appeared newer that it's all good to question literally everything, so dont feel bad.

So his posts are fine in my book. Though sad he didn't then answer the question, but i answered it for him, so all good.

 

Said with principally awe. That was a spectacular effort.

 

This is astonishing to me becuase it implies I can't use markers for madtraps, which means I have to find some minis for them.

Also that it actually means the effectiveness of the motorcylce changes depending on if you own a spare mini or not.

 

madtraps have an profile with an assigned sillie value.

Motorbikes are poorly written such that the profile is more implied than actually defined

 

Madtraps are always Figures not Markers. This distinction occasionally matters. OTOH actually using a marker as a proxy for a figure is something most people would allow, so practically they're consistent.

But I'm not sure that King's answer is correct. I think that the bike is a Marker not a Figure irrespective of how a particular player chooses to represent it on the table (ie if you use a motorcycle model you're using it as a proxy for a Marker). But it's plausible that it's been ruled as he outlined.

Objective Terrain has to have an explicit rule, otherwise it wouldn't block LOF (as it would be a marker).

Honestly though I'm not 100% on this one. It basically comes down to whether you read the inconsistency of Objectives as the general rule or as a specific exception. Personally I think treating them as a specific exception is less madness inducing.

 

Motorcycles have this description in their rules:

• he will Dismount, replace the mounted figure by a Motorcycle Marker (MOTORCYCLE) or a piece of scenery of similar diameter.

(Emphasis added)

So it's either a marker or scenery. The model is actual scenery and so behaves as such (gives cover, blocks lof and such). Mad traps are equipment so dont fall under the "marker" umbrella of not blocking lof and so token and model are equivalent.

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure that it's compelling but absent a correction seems legit enough by Infinity standards.

And the reason why Madtraps block LOF is because they're a Figure not a Marker. Compare Dep Reps: S1, have a profile, don't block LOF because they're Markers.

 

Completely agree sadly. Best i can find up with as far as raw is concerned and I'm becoming more confused by rai as i continue my focus into the tiny details in this game. Oh how i wish they could ensure that their terminology was concrete.

 

I think it's called a ‘setup’ in comedy; or maybe a ‘callback’. Dunno. I’m glad people enjoyed it at some level, anyway.

Yeah, that was pretty much my intention, thanks. I'll tee 'em up, and you knock 'em down the fairway.

 

There is technically a third option: a marker that is "indicated for specific purposes" to block line of fire, which as far as I can tell only exists as a concept under the line of fire heading, and I'm pretty sure isn't the case here...

Yeah, bikes also have a profile with a silhouette value, but they are specifically called out as markers that you can use scenery instead of a marker. The choice between the two options works fine for Panoplys, consoles, antennas and other mission objectives because they're part of the table and both players are using the same choice...
Obviously if its a choice for every individual player (actually you could argue its a choice every time you dismount...) some players will use it for whatever advantage they can, eg block this firelane with a piece of scenery, leave that one open with a marker etc...
For consistency with other equipment markers I'd like to see it clarified that the scenery/model used to represent a bike sans rider is just a fancy marker, a bit like a tinbot, but with the exception that it can be targeted and damaged etc.

 

I disagree. The entire rest of the rules refer to it as a Motorcycle Marker, whether or not you used a piece of scenery as the marker.

As a general note, any mention of motorcycle models in this thread is irrelevant, because they're not in the Motorcycle rules.

 

Yeah, possibly not CB finest pieces of rules writing but as far as using scenery to mark the position of the bike, my reading of it is that they're just doing their Genial Galician thing again, and that perhaps they mean something like this?

"When your dude gets off the 'bike, put something down on the table to show where his motorcycle is; you could use any piece of roughly motorcycle-sized scenery."

Spoiler: Roughly Motorcycle-sized Scenery

 

Well that didn't take long...
do I have two more or is this a spiderman "everybody gets one" deal?

 

ROLFMAO. And hey, if you'd wanted a game with comprehensible rules you could be playing X-Wing! This is Infinity, and you knew the risks when you signed on.