So, we are only allowed to mesure what impact legality of our deployment : - deployement zone and middle of the table (and exclusion area if there is one) - limit of ad deployment - distance for hvt - zone of control only when there is a "legal" factor (ghost synchro, deployable equipment, firretam) Is this the official rulling ?
im pretty sure you can measure fireteam coherency during deployment as well http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Coherency
The Coherency rules say that you can measure them except for "the last figure(s) kept back as reserve, nor during the deployment of [those] model(s)". (Slight editing.) So, a "yes and no" concerning measuring coherency.
Sorry about the Necro, but a related question entered my mind while reading this. I might be looking at this in a strange, rules-as-written way, but are you allowed to redeploy models during deployment? For example, I deploy Scylla, I measure 8" for Charybdis, and put her down. I then put a Myrmidon down next Charybdis, and a TR bot next to Scylla, out of small template range from the Myrmidon. Can I then decide to put Scylla on the other flank? Is there a rule like in chess, "When you remove your hand from the model, its done"? If I am allowed to change deployment of Scylla and Charybdis, you can effectively premeasure anything 10" or less in your deployment zone [rules as written] as long as you have at least one G:Sync unit. So why don't we just allow measurement in deployment to get around the dance of placing Scylla and Charybdis every time I want to measure something? If I'm not allowed to redeploy Scylla and Charybdis, at what point is a trooper "done"? If I put one member of the link down, but then see that the intended place for the second member with a sniper rifle can't be in cover because it would be out of coherency, am I forced by the rules as written to keep the link in that bad position?
Good question, thanks. I can't answer it authoritatively, but when I'm stuck on this sort of thing I ask myself what I think the better players I know would do. In this case, I'd fully expect better players to shuffle their own models after they'd placed them, and allow me to do the same with mine - but only up to the point of passing turn to the opponent for their deployment (which I'd think is a fairly obvious proviso). Spoiler: Off-topic comment about turns and takebacks This interests me, but my musings are probably way off-topic. I don't believe there's any such rule like this in Infinity, but the touch-move rule still exists in chess at the highest level, and time controls also as a distinct but related element (perhaps a better chess player (paging @psychoticstorm) can elaborate). The time controls and touch-move rule work like this together: Your opponent turns their clock off and your clock on; their turn has ended and yours has begun When you touch a piece you're obliged to move that piece Once you release the piece in a legal square, the move is complete You turn your clock off, and your opponents clock on; your turn has ended and theirs has begun In my Magic: the Gathering club , we borrowed the chess courtesy to apply takebacks for our casual games (where we define a Takeback as something you did, and which the opponent has responded to; which is not the same as in chess that has that stricter move/time control). We call it a rethink if no-one's yet responded. ie. "Do you want to rethink that attack?" or "Can I rethink that use of mana?" The club rule is that if both players agree beforehand, the game is conducted strictly according to DCI tournament rules instead. We found this worked well to help one another play better games, just like the chess rule, where it's often the better player who realizes a move was a blunder, but it also worked well to keep a certain undesirables out of the club - spikes who like to take advantage of the rules to abuse their opponents. I'm saying all this because I'm not a fan of takebacks for Infinity. I do give rethinks in almost every game I play, even ITS, and would give a takeback if a player belatedly learns something they needed to know, but again, I'm really not a fan. I also don't use Play By Intent at all (which people have compared to takebacks and rethinks, which may or may not be valid), but I do freely share all kinds of open and not-open information. It's about being clear on the difference between what you have to do and what you choose to do to help out your opponent and the etiquette of managing that. I suggest that shuffling modles isn't so much a takeback as a rethink, I generally need that sort of grace to help out my own deployment and am happy to provide it to my opponent without objection. [heavily edited]
No: you can move models around your deployment until your 'done'. The only thing that you can't move once it's in position is anything you roll for: so anything forward deployed* that needs a roll, Booty or Metachemistry. Basically once they're in their 'final position' you roll and then that's where they stay (the exception being forward deployed troopers who fail their rolls and are consequently redeployed). *note the lack of capitalisation.
I've no argument with that call, but presumably it is an implication of the rules and not an explicit rule 'Imp? eg. if you're using Hidden Deployment, players are obliged to record the model's position, so moving it doesn't make sense. (For Infiltration, I'd argue as I would in any traditional game that a dice roll is an event that formally concludes and is irrevocably applied to its situation. ie. you either or did or didn't succeed an Infiltration roll, and you can't change the outcome of the roll, and can't change the position you chose. Always assume everything related to the situation was legal. And the point being, this is just my argument about how we tend to manage games generally, not something that's actually specified by the rules .)
The 'when you can't move something anymore' has been discussed in depth and I believe may be FAQ'D in the context of Booty. The guidance I can find that the rules has on it is "During the Deployment Phase, before the game begins, players place their troops on the battlefield" and in coherency "After having checked Coherency, the player can adjust the placement of those troopers so they are all inside the Zone of Control." I would find it odd that you can adjust a model affected by the coherency rules, but not one that isn't. Basically it's easiest to play it as: There is a distinct point at which a trooper is considered 'placed'; the deploying player determines when they consider to have 'placed' their model. However, you make rolls after the model is 'placed' ergo you can't move it after you roll (unless failing the roll means that you must).
Theres no defined time component to deployment. Outside of HVTs nothing limits your abillity to put models on the tsble and adjust them. I mean hell at the very least its terrible sportsmanship to be the kind if person arguing over where your oppone t places their models and how they put them on the table during their deployment phase.
It is better to visualise deployment in phases and once the deployment moves to the next phase the previous phase cannot be undone. HVT Main deployment reserve It must be noted that things rolled for is done deal and cannot be moved, even thought it is not directly stated in the rules. I am not sure if deployment timing needs to be tightly controlled or left to the devises of each group as long as it conforms the basic logic I said above. Your thoughts and opinions please. Edit worth noting Booty and metachemistry have been FAQed (errataed) to be rolled after deployment.
Honestly even the hvt deployment doesnt really need to be done first. Realistically its more to ensure players dont forget them. No kne should however be taking issue with a player that realises there are better positions for his HVT and troops once he is halfways deployed. However reserves absolutely need to be time locked due to their nature of being deployed after the opponent has made their choices and locked them in. For clarrity. Player 1 deploys hvt Player 1 deploys force Player 2 deploys hvt Player 2 deploys force. Then reserves. Theres no real reason for there to be a break in player 1s first 2 steps.
The fact they changed the HVT from the previous ITS to this one means its a conscious change, probably a disadvantage.
Greater specificity in rules will always allow players to infer what is and isn't acceptable in terms of fair play*. So if we wanted to tighten this up to avoid any question about it, we could add a single sentence to make it clear that what players can do (re-arrange models as necessary); the constraints (existing restrictions on measurement during Deployment) and implies what you can't do (re-arrange once you've passed). You could spell out the prohibition, but it seems important to Corvus Belli to maintain a relaxed attitude. (Additions in red). Following the order established in the Initiative Roll, as decided by the player who kept Deployment players take turns positioning their models, and the Deployment Phase is divided into the following steps: Player One HVT - Player One places their HVT Player One Deployment: the first player places all but one of their troops inside his Deployment Zone. Player Two HVT - Player Two places their HVT Player Two Deployment: Player Two places all but one of their troops inside their Deployment Zone. Player One Last Figure: Then, Player One places the troop they kept back earlier Player Two Last Figure: Finally, Player Two places the troop they kept back earlier As long as they respect the rules for measuring during Deployment [below]) players may rearrange their models in each step as necessary, and then pass the turn to their opponent. [edited according to correction from @psychoticstorm ]
As per ITS rules it is Player one deploy HVT Player one main deployment Player two deploy HVT Player two main deployment Player one last figure deployment Player two last figure deployment
I Edited my post accordingly. Since you've mentioned that Meta-Chemistry is widely played incorrectly, is it then: Player 1 Meta-Chemistry Player 2 Meta-Chemistry
You roll metachemistry and booty immediately after placing the model on the table. Note that like infiltration, this roll implicitly "locks" the model to the spot where you deployed it.
Nah, it’s the same as Booty ie ‘after the players deployment phase’. The effect is the same, rolling for them ends the deployment phase so they’re now ‘locked/placed’. I think technically that would be after the Player ‘x’ Last Figure step, but everyone I know does it after the Player ‘x’ Deployment step (unless deploying a model with Metachemistry or Booty as their Last Figure, and then that model is rolled separately). However, IIRC the ‘Last Figure’ Step is treated as distinct from the deployment step for Parachutist as well (ie you choose during the Deployment step, you can’t wait until the Last Figure)... but I can’t find where this was discussed.
