Closed Battle Lists are too new and too uncommon to make any conclusions. This is only the second set we've seen, and both of those are VERY different!
Also, since these violate my rule of 'my dudes' I don't think I'll run them - I play as my own unit, not as a famous one, same reason I steer away from named characters, in general.
@Solodice suggestion is an excellent middle ground, but I'd go so far as to say that the only difference is that a fireteam with an impetuous member generates an impetuous order. In a mixed team this may mean that non-impetuous troops gets dragged along, or in case of old Domaru+Haramaki that the Domaru gets dragged along with the X-Imp order that's more costly to stop. Ideally these orders may only be spent with individuals who are impetuous as leaders, but that's not really necessary if you want to save on ink. That said, the fluff justification for how Fury/Impetuous works is counter to what the fluff justification for fireteam coherency and for N4 I'm hoping that going Impetuous breaks the person out of the fireteam.
One Impetuous order fulfill the requirement for the full fireteam members Team Leader MUST BE an Impetuous model Any Impetuous model can forget about cover even if in a Fireteam This should be largely enough
But really, the whole go impetuous at end of order for Fury: Frenzy is also very important. The sometimes grossly delayed loss of cover is one of the main reasons why Frenzy isn't as much a drawback as the discount implies for soldiers outside fireteams.
Good suggestions but they kinda not work, the loss of cover is the easiest part, the impetuous orders, generation and management is the difficult part, should the team generate an order? should each individual generate its own order and share it with the team, how do mixed teams behave, should they tag along with the impetuous membes? Throwing out impetuous members is an easy way to leech out or break the fireteam and this is what an impetuous fireteam (theoretically) tries to avoid, do not think I look down on the suggestion I am particularly interested on ideas and suggestions on a theoretical model of how such teams, extreme, regular impetuous, Frenzied, mixed would behave.
I do not agree they do not work any less than the Impetuous rules themselves do not work, but for practical reasons a fireteam should only ever generate 1 impetuous order - otherwise a Kuang Shi team would be obliged to get propelled 4 full orders before control over the team can be re-established something extreme enough that the game simply isn't designed to handle it. Still, Solodice suggestion is the most concise and simple to implement - it keeps the disadvantage that you get a discount for without making things needlessly complicated in terms of management and current situation with mixed-fireteams.
Solodice solution does not have the bonus order that offsets the many disadvantages the impetuous characteristic gives and still does not deal with mixed teams.
I actually like the idea of this CBL, keen to see people enjoy playing them, challenge or otherwise. Same for Blizzard-6, they're a nice break up from the usual way of playing if you're not trying to play seriously competitively.
Well, yeah, it doesn't deal with mixed link teams because it doesn't have to, any less than if Bagh-Mari joining with Fusiliers would need to have Mimetism deal with mixed link teams. You could also argue that the extra order is very much a mixed bag rather than a benefit - it literally gets people killed due to AROs. The problem is that Fireteams provide a completely free way to get extra points to spend on your army, but only for the sectorials blessed with having troops who are linkable and Fury. It is nearly completely analogous with Zuyong receiving a 5-point discount across the board in IA only. Sorry, this is getting off topic
Being crazy cheap is still there, and that's what really matters. I'd let linked impetuous units generate their order, but using it is like using the LT order so it breaks user out of the link.
Yeah, the discount in cost is already there. I think @Solodice's suggestion is good. You either: - get the Fireteam benefits, or - get the Impetuous order benefits (- and possibly both, if linking after using Impetuous orders were to remain) but - you always have the loss of cover. Depending on how Impetuous orders and Linking were to be rewritten, that would probably be a solid balance between them.
We're way off topic now, but I think the current situation will be less of an issue once IA drops, as there will be (hopefully) optimized HI link teams in that which put something like a domaru pain train on notice, as IA link teams will actually be able to shoot worth a damn and carry some scary, scary weapons.
Haris teams of Yan Huo and another cheaper HI? For the final word in firepower. Hey why not dream big.
That was my thought. Yan Huo + Zuyong Haris. Have a Hsien+Wu ming or Zuyong core, maybe with the option to run LI in, so 1 Hsien, 1 Wu Ming, 3 Li. There are a lot of really sexy options, I'd love just a Gujia+weibing duo, that'd give you a fun option for mixing it up. I think IA has a ton of potential, so I can't wait for CB to get over ISS and get on to the good stuff.
Hmm, what puts Domaru pain trains on notice are things like E/Maulers, E/Mitters, 6S hackers with Deployable Repeaters on Minelayers and Jammers. I'm not confident IA will get those, just as I'm not confident IA will get Fury HI that they use to improve the budget of certain units. What support units IA gets is going to be absolutely critical to their performance.
Yes, but the Domaru train wouldn't have the active turn firepower you see with heavier weapons, nor the weapon diversity. I think there is room for some seriously gross firepower in IA, the real question is what support options and order providers they get. I'm personally hoping for a small remote so they can come in a box with 3-4 or them, that can be order providers.
Domaru/Tanko links do have good firepower. Spitfires, while not as good as HMGs at long range, are still very solid weapons; and Missile Launchers are great in five-man HI Links. Then they're also very well protected against reactive hacking and CC attempts (between four-man Sixth Sense, and great CC attributes/skills). Zuyong, as they stand currently and assuming no linked Yan Huo, aren't packing anything that's particularly dangerous to other HI Links. About the best they can muster is a Missile Launcher and HMG themselves, which is basically the same. All while costing about the same. Zuyong are no-frills HI (well, besides the Breaker Pistols). And that's become pretty mediocre considering the pretty crazy Links that are now quite widely available.
Can anyone suggest an easy way to make a weapons table for these lists? I’d use the army builder but some profiles don’t exist on there.
So regarding the fluff - just ignore the parts you don't like. Write them off as propaganda from the other side. These can be "Shield Division" lists, or "Butcher" lists - it's your choice. (In my case I'm going with Shield Division lists, because the IS really needs to keep the State Empire intact, in order to help Humanity react to the Combined Army's invasion of the Human Sphere - that's "a bit of a problem." And that's also why ALEPH allies continue to be part of most of these lists - because the AI agrees. (Though what's up with all those Dakinis - are all the Garudas busy elsewhere?)
