Oh it's far more complex than that. And I did note that only fluff fans who managed to remain fluff fans despite the situation might be involved in such a conflict. It's just that one of a number of bad outcomes of the decisions made here is that it makes such a conflict possible. If the fluff didn't mess with the game like it did there wouldn't be any reason for conflict. Fluff should stay in it's god damn place. edit: Oh and for added complexity... While many people defending Uprising on the basis of liking it as exciting fluff development (making it totally worth the damage to the game play apparently) might represent this as an inevitable outcome of the fluff... ...I think the underlying decisions involved, however bad, were probably more marketing related the fluff actually was shaped to match their game play goals. It's just the non-fluffy goals chosen were so bad and the fluff excuse eventually so poorly executed that it turned into a whole mess that leaves fans scrambling to try a fluff sourced justification for it that feeds into, among other things, a potential game fan/(surviving) fluff fan split. And if you don't think this is a potential conflict, look at the posts already conflicting with me for daring to care about game play ahead of fluff.
Well, considering that, generally speaking, the story is what drives the gameplay for CB rather than viceversa, you can care about them in whatever order you’d like, while recognizing that disappointment is likely since the developer does it a certain way...
No, you misunderstand. Your arrogant and ignorant approach to the significance of the setting and background is making an enemy of everyone who, like me, plays the game for those reasons. No matter the validity of your arguments, the way in which you are making them is dismissive and divisive. Without the setting and background there is no game. Without the setting and background there is no reason for any of the factions to be in conflict. Without the setting and background there is nothing. Infinity the game is simple one way to express the conflicts which exist because of the setting and background, a flawed one at that, it serves no greater purpose than that (beyond economic ones, but I think one thing we agree on is that shouldn't be the driving force). Yes, it should. And that place is driving the game, shaping it, and giving it a reason to exist. Where the game conflicts with the setting and background the game should alter to match it, never the other way around. You can believe that for as long as you like, but it won't make it any more true. Every interaction I've ever had with CB leads me to believe that they are a group of people driven by marketing only after and in service to the greater story which they are all part of. Oh, it IS a conflict. It didn't need to be, we could have been working together to call for improvement to the things we both see as flawed, but instead you've chosen to make it a conflict between us. Well done, I guess?
@A Mao Esquerda Do you actually believe this split was driven by a dedication to utter inevitability in fiction and NOT by a marketing related decision? Because if that was genuinely true (its not, dedication to fluff is just a nice story you've been told, again for marketing reasons) in that case I think there might be a fair number of gamers like me ready to jump off the crazy ship that thinks fiction has utterly inevitable outcomes and those outcomes should ruin gaming products if they "need" to.
There is no good way to argue that the choice around the JSA split was based on marketing decisions. While aspects of it have clearly been marketing driven (including the choice to split it clearly from other Yu Jing releases to increase sales of both by avoiding competition) the negative impacts of the narrative choice to split Yu Jing are too obvious and significant for it to be a marketing based decision. Arguing that is IS purely marketing based is irrational, at best.
It was driven by where CB wants their universe, story, and game to go... and, well, yeah, I’ll trust the word of the folks who make the game over your marketing theory every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
@AdmiralJCJF You think pointing at say... oh gee... where to look... the heavy marketing of a major new release boxed product that also hopes to represent an entirely new permanent faction worth of products to purchase is an "irrational" way to argue that this was about marketing. This was about marketing. Someone thought JSA would sell better separately and that it had sufficient market potential to drive a sustainable new faction worth of future sales. The fluff exists because of that and it is not irrational to disagree with that obvious fact, it is highly naive to do so.
Except, as CB has stated numerous times, you have it exactly wrong... the game exists based on the story CB wanted and wants to tell, and the pieces on the table fit in around that. Again, you can believe what you will, but preparation for things going... not the way you imagine they ought would be advised.
Mao, if you insist on believing every last little obviously false marketing claim that's not my problem. But suffice it to say, I'm not falling for that for a second and it isn't consistent with the structure of the gaming product they sell one little bit.
Except for the fact that keeping JSA both in AND out of Yu Jing with a "loyalist and traitor" structure would have been an objectively better marketing choice. One which would have allowed them to do everything they wanted with the Secessionist Japanese without any of the blowback which they've seen. So, yeah, I'm calling bullshit on your claim. Also:
Well, you do you, but, again, you’ve got it exactly backwards and I’ll trust my sources and information over your incorrect theories every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
That requires a belief that A) Faction exclusivity isn't a marketing tool and B) that CB can't make bad marketing decisions.
I can tell that our political positions are strongly opposed but I am quite in awe of your posting here. Bravo.
*points at the entire NA2 setup literally stealing stuff from other Factions* Clearly Faction exclusivity isn't seen as much of a marketing tool by CB. And, you're right... either CB are lying and this is a TERRIBLE marketing choice which is obviously bad to anyone with any kind of training in marketing... OR CB are telling the truth and this choice was based on the development of the setting in spite of it not being a great overall marketing choice and they simply did the best marketing job they could with what was happening.
I’ve been here since the beginning of the international forum. @Section9, @Janzerker, @psychoticstorm, @Magno & @Cervantes3773 are the posters from around then who are still here apart from you. Some of these are strongly opposed to the fluff of Uprising, some strongly in favour and some have not posted one way or another. So let’s not try and use that argument to belittle @Eldritch, okay?
But not all the stuff is it? Even as a Yu Jing sectorial JSA had some (sub factional) exclusivity. CB uses factional exclusivity as a marketing tool across their entire product range (I'm underlining that because people keep forgetting what this is). They also use limited cross factional options as another marketing tool where they (in the cases of some of the latest rather lame sub factions rather cynically) offer you the chance of "hey you own these commonly owned models for this other faction already, if you buy these other models you can use them in this new sub faction! And THEN you own models from that other faction too so you might as well buy THAT faction right!". Its marketing all the way down admiral. All the way down.
I would hope that the Awakening of the Dragon includes the current Emperor suffering multiple terrible falls down the stairs while drunk, and the newly-elected Emperor doing some massive house-cleaning in the Imperial Service. (An emperor has never been stripped of his titles, but one has "suffered a terrible accidental death by accidentally falling down the stairs while drunk" wink-wink-nudge-nudge) But I cannot stand how we got to the point of YJ being weak. The Japanese seceding is fine. The Imperial Service failing to prevent the secession is fine (because the secession had to succeed for story reasons). The Imperial Service being incompetent at counter-insurgency is a direct violation of earlier fluff. Being so fucking incompetent that they actively make the insurgency worse by driving noncombatant civilians into becoming active combatants is breaking my suspension of disbelief. The Yanjing, the YJ external intelligence service (equivalent to the American CIA and NSA), somehow missing all the discussions necessary to give the Uprising the foreign backing it needed to succeed, is stretching my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point (we'll see if there's an adequate explanation in the book). PanO starting a shooting war that lasts for 20 days without an O12 approval (the Wall of Steel) is breaking my suspension of disbelief. I'd buy that! Not sure if any other makers do Chinese nobility, though. Lots of Chinese warlords, not many nobility. Perry Brothers are good for Japanese, maybe Kensei, Bushido, or Clan War minis for a traditionally-attired Chinese noble? Peace is overwhelmingly preferable to the alternative. Sometimes, though, the choice you're given is fight or die. But anyone happy at the idea of shooting at Russia is so fucking delusional they need to be committed to an insane asylum before they hurt themselves or someone else. That way lies a nuclear exchange! And that's why I chose Russia for my example, they're the only near-peer the US has, Russia is capable of utterly destroying the US. Because the power balance between PanO and YJ is the same as between the US and Russia: Yu Jing *could* destroy PanO, if they were willing to get severely damaged (if not destroyed outright) in exchange. Yeah, I'm not happy about the reported fluff in Uprising. Scratch that, I'm so offended by what has been revealed so far that I may be quitting the game entirely in a bonfire of minis and books. We will see when I finally get the damn book. Because back in the day, some assholes would go through an entire thread and dislike every single post. Then they'd go through an entire subforum (the new player introduction) and dislike every single post in every single thread. PS was at -26,000 reputation, because he said "Hi, welcome to the game" in *every* new player introduction. I think I was at -6k before we banned those assholes and removed the thumbs-down option from the forum.
@Dragonstriker I didn't say I was here longer. I said it was our game. Made for us. Would you like proof of that? The current theory is that their actions are counter to their secret intentions. We know those are the intentions (despite the actions suggesting otherwise). Maybe Genghis Khan just wanted to help the Chinese repair bridges and just kept making oopsies as well.
