I don't have anything to add which hasn't already been said, but I will say that I started out with MO also because I liked the look of the models and did fine. And by 'fine' I mean had my arse handed to me many times, but that's just Infinity for you.
Yes. The problem with doing so is that it's fairly obvious (and prevents you from taking any actual Fusiliers, which are useful support specialists and Lts). I've had some success with the KotHS but by using Holo 1 and THEN Holo 2, not both at the same time.
Same for me. :) Knights are cool. I loose more often than i win a game, but the cause may be, that i am not the tactical genius i believe i am.
Not tricking, but the rules break a lot if you look into things closely. First, I agree that if you use Holo1 you have to tell the other player that no, his killer hacker can't hack you, and the gentlemanly behavior is that, if he was too excited and declared the ARO before you could say that, tell him to declare another ARO. Second, if the KotHS is in Holo2, it's not your problem, but the enemy knows it is a marker moving three troops, and that it is hackable (so no way it's a Bashi Bazouk even with Joan in play and the Mercs extra in use). Third, that rule is from before killer hackers, where only the defensive hackers were unable to hack other troops (aside from Spotlight), and might be in need of a revision, or not, but it's a thing to consider. Fourth, the KotHS has Martial Arts 2, meaning he has Stealth, so we are inside a loop. If the Knight makes move+shoot (or dodge) and a Ninja KHD without LoF but inside his ZoC gets out of Hidden Deployment, you have effectively "tricked" your opponent, since he took the ninja out of Hidden Deployment without the ninja being able to declare any ARO aside from Change Facing or Alert (or Inaction, remaining in marker state). (for the sake of completion, DeFersen also has Martial Arts). Fifth, and this one is important, the enemy player HAS to reveal his Hidden Deployment hacker (of any kind) to declare that your KotHS is inside of his Hacking area, unless you are inside a Repeater's zone or whatever. So considering this, the only way I can imagine you "cheat" your opponent is when the Ninja is in the LoF of the KotHS and inside of its Zone of control, because the Hidden Deployment KHD HAS to see the disguised Knight to be able to declare any logical ARO that will get him out of Marker State (since we all know that Change Facing is not something anyone would declare a marker will declare as ARO).
Problem with stealth is that you have to declare it use if it is not "obvious" (eg. you are appearing as Fusilier under Holo1), thus giving away to your opponent that for "some strange reason" this fusilier has Stealth. Case closed. That's actually where the rules are broken (camo hackers + hackable Holo1 guys) you don't know if you have to inform your opponent, and your opponent cannot ask you unless he already has some suspicion about it.
I disagree. You are taking my "I was posing as DeFersen and a KHD declared Hacking" and moving away with an evasive like it was a valid answer. No, this part is not broken at all. Hidden Deployment specifies that, in order to declare an ARO, the HD troop has to go into TO camo marker state before declaring any ARO at all, after the first order but not the second. So I walk with DeFersen inside of a HD ninja KHD? He can't do a think unless he has LoF. Then, if I fire a gun and the ninja pops up, the minutiae would be "TO camo marker shows up, i'ts a hacker", to which DeFersen's Player will say "I'm hackable but not a hacker". Done.
Case is the same, dude. A hackable holo1 (on the disguise and/or the real profile) enters a camo hacking area, the controlling player has to tell the Holo's player that he did so. And if a Holo2 enters a hacker's hacking area in marker state, that one can delay his ARO like any other trooper against a marker.
All right, outside. You and I are having a fight. PanO's strength comes from fire superiority. MO gives you that with some decent armour with way less orders but in a link team seriously underlining 'fire superiority'. NCA is basically a savage hail of high BS HMG/Spitfire from across the board with the occasional T/O surprise and whatever crazy metachemistry the CSU rolls. ASA are a bit weaker and trickier sure but even there, you have plenty of fire superiority. Not just in the Rambo pieces but also if you wanted to back up your 1-2 rambo pieces with a cheaplink with heavy weapons. With PanO BS and the link team bonuses, it's a low effort fireteam that'll hold down a lot of firelanes and require actual thinking/expending of resources (orders/drop troops) for your opponent to neutralise. IMO that lazy high BS link that's available to the sectorials is the best boon over Vanilla. The rest is just a matter of trying to get some effective button pushing happening. In Vanilla you have much better access to those button pushers thanks to the croc men but your back field is no longer acting like light artillery. Also as an NCA player, ava 2 locusts (AHD!) and Hexa really makes me not care about croc men. And why Nisse when you can swiss guard everything in LOS to death? :)
Reading that summary reminds me why I love my KHD Hac Tao for the 'murder everything and then push buttons' combo, even though the whole hacking/holo/marker thing is reminding me why my Kanren give me headaches. As for Pan-O I'd feel Military Orders is an ok way to learn the rules and get started, but is probably a hard one to actually rack up wins with. That said, from what I'm told, most every faction can win, even if a few are harder than others, so my vote is always go with the units that interest you.
The two are not mutually exclusive you know. Don't knock a good BS13 Mimetism + MSV2 troop down. I get that Fusiliers make a great defensive link, but I find that having a Nisse on one roof and an ABH on the other shuts people down plenty, especially if you have Black Friar watching the back of one or the other. As for Locusts, they're a class down compared to Croc Men. Not to mention I get to use my Tikbalang without having to go full ASA. With every PanO sectorial I feel like I'd lose an important tool.
I think this in essence is why vanilla PanO can work well. As you have mentioned there are some star profiles only available in vanilla that offer a toolbox and play style that is unique in this faction. If it works, it works. Sectorials offer a way to ratchet up your BS power which is a strength in PanO, but that comes at a cost of having more options. Vanilla just offerers more toolbox options that aren't the default PanO option of shoot then push buttons.
@SmaggTheSmug, I feel @xammy has summed up my thoughts nicely. Ultimately I feel it comes down to preferred playstyle. Vanilla lets you cover PanO's weakeness better whereas Sectorials let you double down on the strengths. For me, the bonus to our strengths from Sectorials FAR outweighs the weakness mitigation of Vanilla so I prefer sectorial. If you like the Vanilla toolbox then more power to you. In Haqq Vanilla is my preference over QK because FIDAYZ FOR DAYZ. All a matter of preferred playstyle for the faction. Just happens that if you look at tournament representations, sectorials for PanO show up far more frequently than Vanilla so maybe other people enjoy Dakka as much as I do? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Overall though, I think it speaks volumes of Infinity's balance that Vanilla armies are still extremely relevant in a post-sectorial world.
