Possessed TAG + Isolation

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Leviathan, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2018
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    969
    If a TAG is isolated, and then possessed, what's the rules interaction?

    ie. can orders from the hacker's pool be spent activating the TAG?
     
  2. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    630
    No, as no regular orders cant be spent on a model with isolation. As far as i am aware.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,600
    Likes Received:
    5,602
    Yup, congrats on having possessed a TAG you will need to take an engineer close to so you can spend orders on. So if you plan to possess, make all hacking programs to attempt Overlord and/or total control :p
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,179
    Isolate:
    • While Isolated, troopers cannot receive Orders from their Order Pool.

    Possessed:

    • Troopers in this state cannot activate or receive Orders from their player's Order Pool.
    • Possessed troopers may be activated and receive Orders from the Order Pool of the player who caused them to enter the Possessed state. The Possessed trooper can only receive Orders from the Order Pool of the same Combat Group as the trooper who caused the possession.
    I see no reason why Possessed troops who are Isolated cannot receive Orders from the Order Pool of the same Combat Group as the trooper who caused the possession.

    Edit: which gets weird if you Possess your own TAG back.
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,600
    Likes Received:
    5,602
    "Their Order Pool" means "the order pool from which they can receive orders". Still and Order Pool. Still unable to receive orders from there.
     
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,179
    Your stating an interpretation as fact. The alternative interpretation I outlined is just as viable: the language is relatively ambiguous.

    @ijw thoughts?
     
  7. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    970
    Semiotics talks about 'available readings', 'simple readings' or 'strenuous interpretations' that aren't impossible and might arguably be plausible, but require additional provisions or plausible reasons why exceptions are being made to expected meanings.

    The simple reading of here is that when Possessed a TAG has changed controller, got itself a new profile, and now uses that new controller's pertinent Order Pool. And that if it's then subsequently Isolated, 'their order pool' refers to the new controller's pool, because that's what Isolated usually does to a non-possessed unit and we don't have to make any exceptions or strenuous arguments.

    So it's not impossible to provide an alternative reading that somehow makes the original order pool available, but one also has to make additional arguments for why the word 'their' from the Isolated text has changed meaning from 'the Order Pool that can (currently) active this unit' to 'the Order Pool that used to be able to activate this unit, and from which it was Isolated'.

    If a Possessed and Isolated TAG were indeed Possessed back (which might not be too much of a stretch given a good Hacking army and a mission in which the TAG were more useful re-Possessed than destroyed) then again the simple reading is that it'd use the Order Pool of the Combat Group that did the re-Possession.

    But whatever; players can make more strenuous readings if they want to.
     
    #7 Wolf, Apr 20, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,179
    Because 'their' can mean 'the Order pool of the Combat group to which they actually belong' which never changes.

    Which honestly seems a far simple reading than 'their' changing potentially several times in a turn.
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,350
    Likes Received:
    14,838
    No bleeping chance. It's Isolated.

    Note that Possessed state uses the same phrasing for both players:
    'their player's Order Pool'
    'the Order Pool of the player'

    So anything that affects Orders for an unpossessed TAG should affect spending Orders on it when Possessed.
     
  10. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    970
    Well yeah, but I was trying to be polite :smile:
     
  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,063
    Likes Received:
    1,791
    So, long story short, "Order Pool of the player who cause Possessed State to troopers" is considered to be "their Order Pool" in that scenario?
     
    Leviathan likes this.
  12. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,350
    Likes Received:
    14,838
    I can't see any other way for it to work.
     
    colbrook likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation