Moving in white noise

Pretty much spot on, the only thing that stands out is that the Zhanying could have delayed their AROs (6th Sense) and this might have influenced the Active player's decision (though probably not as the bots only have HFTs).

 

Alarm is another option, but... yeah, Change Facing is the only option that allows YJ to preserve Fireteam Integrity and FtF both the flamethrower and Drakios, with the hope that, if succesful, they will be repositioned to avoid a clustefuck. This is because one of them cannot see the Devabot, and Change Facing is not the same ARO as Dodge... and that one and the Hsien would dodge at -6 (because he can't see the troop firing the template).

The Hsien sees no Drakios, nor Devabot (because of MSV+Albedo) despite them being just in front of him... so he can't shoot them unless he does so using a -6, or (I think) using the nanopulser...

Frankly, I would sacrifice the Fireteam and declare dodge with 2 of the members and change facing with the second Zhanying, so it's just one troop eating a dodge at -6 instead of two.

 

The highest MOD Hsien would get on Dodge in this situation is -3, for not seeing Drakios/Devabot, but he'll likely not be able to declare Dodge. Change Facing would roll the same MOD, though this is innate in CF so it's still PH-3.

 

Wouldn't change facing stack with "can't see the source of the template" if Drakios were to fire his heavy flamethrower at the Hsien? Thus my assumption he would suffer the -6 (at worst, that is, against Drakios' gun he would change facing at -3)

 

No, it's the same MOD.

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Template_Weapons_and_Equipment

However, that Roll becomes a PH-3 Roll in these cases:

• If the trooper affected by the Template Weapon does not have LoF to the attacker.
• If the Template Weapon is a Deployable Weapon (such as a Mine or an E/Mauler).
• Troopers affected by a Template Weapon who declare Change Facing will perform a PH-3 Roll.

 

One zanshi had LoF ;)

I think you can dodge attacks from Zero Visibility zones (the Devabot, through an MSV in this case) without penalty if attacked. Same as what would a Posthuman would do if the Hsien were to fire at him from inside a smoke template.

 

You can, but the Hsien is stuck declaring on Step 4 in the Order Expenditure Sequence having only ZoC AROs to choose from and no Sixth Sense and won't be attacked until Step 5

1. Activation: The Active Player declares which trooper will activate.
2. Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper.
3. Declaration of the First Skill: The Active Player declares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement.
4. Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player checks which of her troopers can react against the activated trooper, and declares AROs for each of them. If a trooper can declare an ARO but fails to do so, the chance is lost. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement.
5. Declaration of the Second Skill: The Active Player declares the second Short Skill of the Order, if applicable. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement.
6. Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player can check whether new AROs are available, and declare those. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement.

 

Yeah, forgot for a second the "Drakios and his partner walk inside the ZoC without using stealth", got entangled with "tear templates are all 21+cm" (so just a smidge bigger than the ZoC, in the case of the smaller one)

 

Just a footnote, but it's exactly these kinds of situations where camouflage rules had delayed ARO implemented to avoid. It's not quite like smoke since Albedo acts as portable "smoke+MSV2" vs MSV models and that combo for very low cost and no extra order expenditure you just don't get. Should really be treated as marker state with regards to delaying ARO, in my opinion.

 

No. The Hsien player should have actually had a decent ARO set up to stop Drakios before he got into position to flame the whole link. That's one of the primary purposes of his 2 buddies.

 

That you can run as an argument regarding camouflage and impersonation as well, and it works even better as an argument to dispute that delay is a good mechanic versus Holo2 than as an argument against delay vs Albedo.

 

Yes, except regular everyday troopers can't see through those things. Albedo is only an issue if you're relying on MSV, solution 'don't rely solely on MSV', you don't need delay to deal with it. OTOH there is no simple option to deal with marker states absent delay.

 

For Holo2: set up a few units to shoot the echoes.
For other marker states: set up a few units to Discover.
I don't see how these arguments are different from yours. We're also talking about not only denying, but turning an investment into a liability and that alone should merit delay as an option. Keep in mind that Albedo doesn't go away if the user attacks, unlike other marker states, and can't be discovered away and you can't hope for ARM/BTS to save you so that Guts or Warning moves will let you reposition for LOF in anticipation of the next order. It is frankly, in my opinion, way too strong a mechanic and belongs in N2, not N3

 

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by hard counter. I don't see how it is unreasonable to hold the opinion that delay as a reaction is not warranted and well within the design parameters of N3.

The relationship is a bit of a strange one since MSV is designed to deny other troopers their advantage and level the playing field while Albedo punishes such leveling by upping the ante significantly against them.

 

This is entirely false.
Not only are there a large number of ARO and board control pieces that have MSV of some description (such as Guilang, Knauf, Bagh-mari or Grrls (though in their sectorials the latter two can get Sixth Sense through fireteams, thus completely ignoring the whole shenanigan)), but a camo marker isn't hard-countered by MSV and a camo marker is also revealed immediately upon executing a non-movement skill. Albedo is a hard-counter to MSV troopers in general while nearly everything else in this game either is a soft-counter or requires fairly expensive setups (smoke, melee or white noise). Albedo's only mitigating factor is that it is limited to first turn only when soft-counters to troopers running across the board are present and that so far it doesn't exist on forward deploying troops (to my knowledge). And god do I love it when people present me with soft ARO counters like that for me to pick off. It's like when someone deploys their Kuang Shi ever so slightly wrong, but to more important troops.