While I sort of know the answer, I don't know the rules reference for said answers. Here's two things that low-key bother me with how AD sometimes is handled in our meta: 1. When scattering or landing on target, does an AD trooper have to land on the highest altitude terrain, or could it land under a bridge or inside a building? (On rare occasions particularly things like AI beacons ends up under bridges or under balconies) 2. When scattering, is there a rules reference that specifically deals with landing in base-to-base contact with terrain or touching terrain (such as landing on top of a fence)? (I find that often scatter movement direction is imprecise enough or the terrain topology makes measuring 16" difficult enough that angle or distance gets fudged so that a scattering AD trooper always gets to land if it wants to land) I'm mostly fishing for official clarification (such as a wiki page with a rules quote or an excerpt from an example) for future reference - or put in a different way; what am I missing? P.s. 3. Is there a rule preventing an AD1, AD2 or ADX trooper from entering inside a building if the building is half-way off the table? I.e. are all AD levels forced to land on top-most topography?
For a bridge specifically wouldn't you have to land under it? The trooper doesn't have a "direction" that they are moving from as far as I know, and unless the bridge is huge you can't fit a circular template completely within it. So the only eligible deployment spot is underneath where the entire template can be placed.
Number 1. Nothing I can see prevents you from "Combat Jumping" beneath a walkway (or other raised feature as long as the circular template fits flat underneath it), as odd as it seems, so logically walking on underneath one should also be viable. Expect funny looks if you try it inside a building (though spec fire works in mysterious ways so who knows...). That said, my meta plays building internals as low viz, so you couldn't regardless. Number 2 is answered by the generic "Effects" of base AD skill itself: "Troopers using Airborne Deployment cannot deploy Prone or in base to base contact with another model, Marker, mission objective or piece of scenery." 16" in a fixed, easily determined direction should have very little in the way of "fudging". You centre the circular template on your model, then measure in the direction rolled, if the end point is somewhere the model can't be placed (including in base contact with, well, anything really) then it goes to your DZ (remember that flat spaces atop buildings etc. are fair game to land on however). Number 3. Buildings, in my experience, have 4 walls and generally stop at the table edge leaving no room to enter from outside, but if you are playing with a building straddling the table edge somewhat I'd suggest you probably won't get a TO ruling in your favour if you try and deploy an AD trooper inside it.
To the extreme, I own one of these http://www.customeeple.com/product/infinity-palacio-prohibido/ and the bottom floor is large enough to fit a template fully with floor decorations strongly discouraging putting stuff inside it to prevent combat-dropping there. Please tell me I'm missing something in the official rules that prevents me from deploying Tiger Soldiers on the ISS logo in the middle of this building
We've been house-ruling Scatter situations forever as 'if it Scatters on to a building (ie. a piece of scenery) and - with an extra base width margin, can find room for its base at the Scatter point, then that's where it lands. It's not been uncommon a unit to survive unexpected ARO.s on landing, and then becoming an equally unexpected factor for both players in the remaining game. Notwithstanding the extra base width, is scattering on to a building not legal; can anyone confirm or deny with references? (If 'no, because it'd be touching scenery' then there's a hidden implication there, which is that when your unit is Scatter-ing, it is still a form of Deployment; don't mind, just curious.)
Given the way CB worded Landing Aid, and therefore how landing pads and the like have to work, the flat roofs of buildings are not scenery items (else you could never actually land on a landing pad, despite getting +3 to do so) so scattering onto them is fine. I must say I'd not support re-positioning by even as little as half a base width in any situation, the rules say you go to you DZ.
The tops of buildings are scenery, technically, but give the way the rules are set up it doesn't make sense to treat them as such for the purposes of AD. When I was first taught Infinity back in N2 the group I played with treated the tops of buildings as no-go zones, which created situations where there were about six square inches on the table that were viable drops for AD troopers. It's one of those situations with CB being lazy about writing the rules and then expecting the playerbase to pick up the slack.
No, they aren't. Because no rule in the rulebook treats them as scenery. You may as well try to claim "Those buildings on the table are models." That's not how that word is used in the rulebook, but I can find you any number of architects that would say otherwise. And, wow, I still have the still images I captured from the 2nd edition introductory videos: The model's in base contact with the building, why doesn't it have cover? Because the rooftop is not scenery, as far as the rules are concerned.
flat surfaces are not scenery, and quite frankly fudging landing zones and allowing people to scatter more or less than 16 is a fairly silly houserule open to a lot of abuse. If you have so much scatter on the table that your AD cant scatter 16 and be reasonably sure not to hit anything then you probably have too much scatter
Slightly tangential, but if you have buildings up to the edge of the table how do you feel about AD troops walking on the side on a rooftop?
in my meta we dont allow it if the building is right up against the edge. the rationale being that the buildings vertical surface is on the "In game" side of the edge line and therefore the AD troop cannot possibly be in B2B with the board edge and be in a position on the building where it is legal for the base to be placed. That being said, I've played on tables where the buildings were deliberately "over hung" from the table edge and was cool with AD walking on the board edges on those buildings. In general Id say people are against it based on my original rationale, but if thats how your group plays go nuts.
Yeah, for the most part at least, I think you're right Hecaton. We should be fair about this though. They're not lazy about writing their rules; they care very much about how their game is played, and they're justifiably proud of their gorgeous publications. It's just the way their rules are written that's such a load of bollocks
Sure, but it's just a house rule which should mean it's explicitly not an official rule, and implicitly and ideally that the official rule - or at least our understanding of it is also ring-fenced, yes? Spoiler: Off Topic House Rules for AD Troops We play a lot of Air Deployment troops in our locale, and found that troops often Scatter-ed onto the edges of buildings which as you say, means they were just going back to the Deployment Zone and which didn't feel right to us. We felt there should be some simulation of the unit having to deal with an awkward and dangerous landing, perhaps in enemy-held territory. Our original solution was to allow the reactive player to place the unit anywhere along the Scatter vector, but it was too easy to drop the troop into range of a war band's Chain Rifles, which made it too punitive. This solution was just a little more likely to keep the unit on the table, but still off-target. It's more often punitive for the active player, and more often also entertaining for the reactive player.
And Nomads players hate it 'so, you have a house rule that specifically nerfs the tactical advantage of one of my troops'.
Yes but in fairness, there is a dearth of rules that would properly explain and distinguish concepts of 'tabletop', 'scenery' and therefore how flat roofs or flat-topped scenery should be treated. My recollection is that you've previously explained some of the history of this confusion (possibly from older versions of the game rules); can you tell us any more about that @solkan?
If they're, say, the roof of a building they are. So a roof of a biobungalow is a biowall scenery element, etc. Scenery structures are scenery; being in touch with the roof of a scenery structure means you're in contact with scenery. The fact that CB made their rules inherently contradictory is something that we have to deal with.
In this case, the roof is itself the 'horizontal flat surface'. If there was an air conditioning unit or similar on the roof then that would stop the flat surface from being free of scenery items. -IJW http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/33171-how-does-cover-actually-work/?page=2
Honestly, AD5 is kind of stupid. You'd expect something along the lines of "Infiltration -> Superior Infiltration" upgrade, and instead you get this... I think @solkan addressed that somewhat by referencing old CB's educational videos...
I'm fairly certain that AD:5 is basically free or close to it. And it's a nice element of tactical flexibility, particularly on the BSG or HMG. But it's what makes Hellcats special and Wolf's houserule is cheating his meta's Nomad players out of a lot of that advantage (however small you think it is).
